I wonder how long until the next price increase comes along. I don’t think they’ll be able to raise it again without another significant new feature becoming available in the near future. I’d like to believe Tesla with their claim that FSD will be “feature complete” by the end of the year, but their track record thus far doesn’t give me much confidence. I’d be very happy to be proven wrong. If I were to purchase a new Model 3 right now I don’t think the current feature set justifies the new $7000 price tag.
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FSD is Now $7,000
- Thread starter techdash
- Start date
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I think you are confused.
If you have EAP then you wouldn't need to pay 7k for FSD.
It was only 3k as of yesterday- and 4k today.
For some reason the EAP folks keep jumping in without reading the thread title and understanding it refers to folks with the newer, more basic AP, who have a higher price to pay for FSD, but actually would get a bunch of new to them features by paying it that EAP folks already have.
Which, as we've established, it isn't, since it adds a bunch of actual, here today features to the basic AP system that the folks who would need to pay 7k don't have right now.
So clearly you are not happy with the various autopilot features of the Tesla. But what evidence do you have that "most folks consider NOA a joke" ? Do you have any numbers to back this up?
Enginerd
Member
This is why I started taking data on the performance of NOA and posting it. Nothing is ever black and white (
). Of course people will have individual experiences, and not 100% of them will be positive. But are they pretty good, most of the time, and getting better? My NOA results to date indicate yes.A person's acceptance of new technology doesn't always correlate with the ability of that system to successfully accomplish a task. Human beings can have a disproportionate response to a negative experience. I'm continually looking for ways to evaluate (and at times suppress) this tendency when I see myself doing it. One example is when the car pauses to wait for someone to turn out of the lane. It waits about 1 second longer than I would, but during that one second I feel myself getting pretty agitated. The delay is not unsafe in any way, and has no real impact on door to door time. It's just something that I can work on getting used to.
That's why I just pulled the trigger on FSD: based on recent evidence. My results indicate to me that while AP is not yet perfect, the Tesla team is committed to the future success of FSD, and is demonstrably advancing on that goal.
This is why I started taking data on the performance of NOA and posting it. Nothing is ever black and white (
A person's acceptance of new technology doesn't always correlate with the ability of that system to successfully accomplish a task. Human beings can have a disproportionate response to a negative experience. I'm continually looking for ways to evaluate (and at times suppress) this tendency when I see myself doing it. One example is when the car pauses to wait for someone to turn out of the lane. It waits about 1 second longer than I would, but during that one second I feel myself getting pretty agitated. The delay is not unsafe in any way, and has no real impact on door to door time. It's just something that I can work on getting used to.
That's why I just pulled the trigger on FSD: based on recent evidence. My results indicate to me that while AP is not yet perfect, the Tesla team is committed to the future success of FSD, and is demonstrably advancing on that goal.
Don’t get me wrong. NoA does amazing stuff sometimes. But it’s very much work in progress. I will “play” with it now and then to see it’s progress. But if I want to relax or have a conversation with someone, it needs to be turned off. Because right now it takes more concentration and focus to drive with it on than it does with it off. You just don’t know what it will do sometimes.
It has yet to make it through an exchange from one highway to the next (I’ve had it since it was introduced). It gets over to exit lane to late. And here is why, it’s waiting for a car that is to close (like 2 car lengths behind). It’s waiting for the other car to slow or speed up. NoA does nothing to try to solve this. The other car is letting you in, but NoA says no, you’re to close. Meanwhile the exit is fast approaching. So you either miss the exit or you take over. This happens all the time. Even with a medium amount of traffic. NoA never uses speed (up) to solve a problem. And that is a HUGE problem. To me, that is what NoA is supposed to do !! And it just doesn’t do it. And since it is that dumb it should work it’s way over much sooner so it can wait for other cars to get out of the way. But it thinks it’s a better driver than it is. Then chickens out when someone has to goose it to merge.
It hits ramps to fast. It doesn’t get speeds right on ramps or approaching ramps. It gets uncomfortable where it rides on the ramp.
So NoA is very incomplete and basically vaporware.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
You are misusing the term. Vaporware means that the feature is not available to buy. NOA is a feature that you can buy today, so based on the definition below, it is most definitely NOT vaporware.
Vaporware: software or hardware that has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, either because it is only a concept or because it is still being written or designed.
You nailed it. For all intensive purposes it doesn’t exist. Until it knows how to use speed to merge effectively it’s useless. I’d love to use it, but I simply can’t. Took me a while to come to terms with that. Scares the crap out of my passengers.
It’s not even Alpha.
It will likely need more hardware as well.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
No!!! The NOA feature exists, you just don't think it is any good. That is not what vaporware is! That would be like me saying that the iPhone 11 is vaporware because it doesn't do what I want it to do.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I get that you think NOA is crap and useless to you. I am just saying that it is not what the term "vaporware" means. You are misusing the term.
You are saying that it is vaporware to you because it is useless to you. But again, that is not what the term vaporware means.
When I bought my car in 2016 and paid for FSD they showed me a video showing the car doing everything promised on the existing HW 2.0 and just said it was waiting regulatory approval. They did not state that the FSD Video was FAKE, They did not state that we would need multiple new versions of hardware. They said my car had all the equipment needed and the software and hardware just needed validation and approval. So can we all now admit that Tesla lied to us?
scubastevo80
Member
I paid the $3k on 10/31 to go from EAP to FSD. I was previously against doing this but after thinking through it some more, I plan to keep the car for a long time so I am willing to wait for the additional features. Couple that with me doing a lot of driving in the dark (leave for work early and come home late) and a bad eye, and this will help me greatly if my vision deteriorates.
I’ve also mentioned elsewhere that FSD that can drive me to and from my train station without having to “park” in a parking garage will save me about $3k a year.
The kicker for me was that I am a Tesla stock owner and after this quarter’s earnings and price jump, the “paper” profit paid for the FSD (I didn’t sell, just a mental justification for pulling the trigger).
I’ve also mentioned elsewhere that FSD that can drive me to and from my train station without having to “park” in a parking garage will save me about $3k a year.
The kicker for me was that I am a Tesla stock owner and after this quarter’s earnings and price jump, the “paper” profit paid for the FSD (I didn’t sell, just a mental justification for pulling the trigger).
Ludalicious
Active Member
If the camera can't see the light how do you expect a human to see it? At least autopilot doesn't tailgate
Ludalicious
Active Member
That would be a disaster .... Cars driving themself home theoretically doubling the wear and tear on the vehicle and the amount of traffic on the roads. A better idea is to have it go too a cheaper parking lot.
I feel like we will have to come up with some forum nomenclature for the two versions of FSD. Maybe “Classic FSD” for the original FSD package or something, like the Model S crowd does to delineate the pre-AP cars.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Maybe. But as I see it the current FSD package is an intermediary step on the way to what the original FSD package promised. The original FSD or "Classic FSD" is still the final destination.
Basically, Tesla sold EAP which was an advanced form of AP. It was more than basic AP since it contained parts of "feature complete" FSD like NOA and Smart Summon. And original FSD was essentially the end goal FSD, the promise of L5 autonomy. Then, Tesla shifted things around. Now, it sells just the basic AP. And the FSD that Tesla is selling is the "feature complete", ie the pieces of FSD that Tesla hopes will eventually turn into the original FSD.
was thinking the same thing, the pieces are coming together. Now, if NoA stopped getting better, probably a lot of unhappy FSD owners, butt if it continues development...got what was promised.
I use NoA every day including an interchange and hwy exit. I intercede maybe once a week right now (goes up and down with different updates). On my route the maps are correct so it doesn't do anything dumb. Speeds on ramps are perfect as well. Most commonly when I interject it is to hit the gas pedal so I don't hold up traffic behind and prevent road rage
I haven't had to interject for safety on that route for...I can't even remember. My interjections have come down as I've learned to live with how it drives differently than I do, rather than the software changing. So YMMV but also, you do have to adjust your driving style to suit the software since the software drives the same for everyone, but everyone is a different type of driver.
pilotSteve
Active Member
Thats nice since I actually bought this in 2016! I missed the "eventually" part in the fine print I guess. Still waiting but cautiously optimistic I will receive notice from Tesla they are ready to upgrade my hardware...... as promised.
