FSD is Now $7,000

[diplomat33]

Lets take a brief pause to remember what we were promised in 2016..... We are now a full 3 years later and still waiting:

View attachment 472173

What is interesting is that we can now see how the features listed on the FSD page now actually connect to what was promised back then. We are seeing things slowly come together. We can see NOA, "automatic city driving", "Automatic Navigation" (2019.36 update), Smart Summon, Auto Park, Smart Park, Traffic Light Response, are all referenced in that description.

 

[mswlogo]

it is only vaporware if you already have EAP. If you just have basic AP, you do get all those extra features. So it is not vaporware if you have basic AP now.

This is from your signature

FSD "Feature Complete" = Lane Keeping + TACC + Auto Lane Change + Auto Park + Smart Summon + NOA Highway + Traffic Lights & Stop Signs + Automatic City Driving + Driver Supervision - Model 3 LR RWD w/FSD Owner since July 2018.

Basic AP has

Lane Keep
TACC

FSD Adds to AP

Auto Lane Change (basically works pretty good, with manual blinker)
Auto Park - Useless, I can park safer
Smart Summon - Might be useful in bad weather (exactly when the sensors are blocked/impaired)
NOA Highway - Some will consider it as "useful", many others think it needs more baby sitting than not running it at all.
Traffic Lights & Stop Signs - Does not exist to public yet
Automatic City Driving + Driver Supervision - Does not exist to public yet

So the only useful "extra feature" today over AP is Auto Lane Change.

For the record I just added FSD to AP for $6K. I'm hedging it will get better. Definitely not worth more than $1000 today.

 

[CharleyBC]

Think of it this way: it's Full Self-Driving in terms of features: it is all the primary features needed for eventual Full Self-Driving. But it is not yet Full Self-Driving in terms of capability until Tesla finishes the software and validates it for safety.

Full Self-Driving is both the destination (Level 5 Autonomy) and the journey (the software we have today and tomorrow and beyond).

 

[Striker3000s]

I absolutely love that when true fanbois run out of valid arguments, there's always the short seller attack on hand. Truly made my giggle.

Lots of valid arguments. None for people attacking innovation when it doesn't happen exactly like people want. The world will pass by while you're "giggling".

 

[BestRadar]

What is interesting is that we can now see how the features listed on the FSD page now actually connect to what was promised back then. We are seeing things slowly come together. We can see NOA, "automatic city driving", "Automatic Navigation" (2019.36 update), Smart Summon, Auto Park, Smart Park, Traffic Light Response, are all referenced in that description.

I guess if you want to skate the descriptions you can almost say somethings have been done until you revisit the original descriptions. For example... Auto Park... Originally meant,,,, Get out at your location and your car will go and find a spot and park itself. Today Auto Park means to pull up at an empty spot and it will back into it for you. Almost any car can do that but I want to go to the mall get out and have my car go park itself for me because that is what I was promised.

Advanced Summon was supposed to open your garage, pull your car out and pull it up to the front of your house for you to jump in and go. Today we know advanced summon cant even exit a garage without crashing into pillars because the cameras cant see the sides of the fenders let alone you have to hold a button and watch the car get nervous and take forever to go anywhere.

 

[cucubits]

Lots of valid arguments. None for people attacking innovation when it doesn't happen exactly like people want. The world will pass by while you're "giggling".

key word here is "doesn't happen like people want" - which is wrong, vs "doesn't happen at all and they still make you pay"

 

[BestRadar]

key word here is "doesn't happen like people want" - which is wrong, vs "doesn't happen at all and they still make you pay"

What people want is what was promised... Period.

Offering up half baked features is not going to do it especially at the high prices we paid. I personally think the $7k price raise was a stunt to get some people on the fence to drop the cash with the threat of the newer higher price. I would not be surprised if the price is not back to normal or on sale before the end of Q4 when they need more revenue again.

 

[diplomat33]

This is from your signature

FSD "Feature Complete" = Lane Keeping + TACC + Auto Lane Change + Auto Park + Smart Summon + NOA Highway + Traffic Lights & Stop Signs + Automatic City Driving + Driver Supervision - Model 3 LR RWD w/FSD Owner since July 2018.

Basic AP has

Lane Keep
TACC

FSD Adds to AP

Auto Lane Change (basically works pretty good, with manual blinker)
Auto Park - Useless, I can park safer
Smart Summon - Might be useful in bad weather (exactly when the sensors are blocked/impaired)
NOA Highway - Some will consider it as "useful", many others think it needs more baby sitting than not running it at all.
Traffic Lights & Stop Signs - Does not exist to public yet
Automatic City Driving + Driver Supervision - Does not exist to public yet

So the only useful "extra feature" today over AP is Auto Lane Change.

For the record I just added FSD to AP for $6K. I'm hedging it will get better. Definitely not worth more than $1000 today.

Sure, if you are going to eliminate features that you subjectively don't consider useful, anything can be vaporware. Personally, I find NOA Highway a must-have.

 

[Striker3000s]

I agree the price is high and the timeline is long. If we didn't see any progress, or got word the FSD project was going away, that would be cause for an uproar. Self driving is a complicated problem that no one has cracked. We've seen progress in the right direction, so I don't think we can say they are not doing what they promised.

 

[diplomat33]

I guess if you want to skate the descriptions you can almost say somethings have been done until you revisit the original descriptions. For example... Auto Park... Originally meant,,,, Get out at your location and your car will go and find a spot and park itself. Today Auto Park means to pull up at an empty spot and it will back into it for you. Almost any car can do that but I want to go to the mall get out and have my car go park itself for me because that is what I was promised.

Advanced Summon was supposed to open your garage, pull your car out and pull it up to the front of your house for you to jump in and go. Today we know advanced summon cant even exit a garage without crashing into pillars because the cameras cant see the sides of the fenders let alone you have to hold a button and watch the car get nervous and take forever to go anywhere.

I am not saying we have the 2016 FSD description. The 2016 FSD description is describing the finished product when all the FSD features are "done", not what we have now. What we have is a work in progress. Tesla releases features as "beta" and then improves them. But we will get the 2016 FSD description when Tesla finishes FSD.

Using Elon's stages of autonomy, we are currently pre-stage 1. The 2016 FSD page was describing stage 2 (we just did not know it at the time). My point is that we are now seeing the features that will eventually become the 2016 FSD description.

 

[mswlogo]

Sure, if you are going to eliminate features that you subjectively don't consider useful, anything can be vaporware. Personally, I find NOA Highway a must-have.

I think most folks consider NOA a joke and won’t use it.

 

[diplomat33]

I think most folks consider NOA a joke and won’t use it.

Your opinion. I love NOA and it works pretty good for me.

 

[wbhokie]

I think most folks consider NOA a joke and won’t use it.

At this point we are arguing beliefs and opinions. People who believe one way or another aren't going to change their minds.

 

[mswlogo]

Sure, if you are going to eliminate features that you subjectively don't consider useful, anything can be vaporware. Personally, I find NOA Highway a must-have.

Just for you.

Twitter

Poll: Is FSD a complete crock?

 

[run-the-joules]

Your opinion. I love NOA and it works pretty good for me.

I'd like it and use it every day if it wasn't retarded in terms of HOA lanes. It tries to move me out of the HOV lane into the peasant lane like 5 miles before my exit… which is on the left for HOV users.

 

[diplomat33]

Just for you.

Twitter

Only 36% seldom or never use NOA.

 

[mreynolds767]

What is interesting is that we can now see how the features listed on the FSD page now actually connect to what was promised back then. We are seeing things slowly come together. We can see NOA, "automatic city driving", "Automatic Navigation" (2019.36 update), Smart Summon, Auto Park, Smart Park, Traffic Light Response, are all referenced in that description.

I agree that the features promised are slowly coming together, the current pace of advancement though is what puts me off.
I feel more comfortable waiting and paying a price premium later based on what I see today.

The 2016 description did not exactly read as if the features were coming in 4+ years but that they were near ready.

 

[mswlogo]

Only 36% seldom or never use NOA.

You can interpret the 30% “when ever it will work” however you like.

Also see

Poll: Is FSD a complete crock?

 

[drtimhill]

NOA, Smart Summon, Auto Park and Auto Lane Change are not vaporware. Those features are out now. The only features in the FSD package that we are waiting on now are traffic light response and automatic city driving.

I love that “only” .. automatic city driving, if/when it comes, is a huge deliverable, bigger than NOA imho.

 

[silenteski]

Current radar and vision sensors aren't "all weather", so if FSD comes, it will be a fair weather feature. Every owner knows the M3 is a bug magnet, well it does the same for wet snow.

View attachment 472174

I’m not saying this is a perfect solution and it doesn’t lessen the point you’re making, but I’ve had good success with the product Tesla suggests applying to the front fascia here: Winter Driving Tips