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FSD Price Cut to $12k Tonight, Aug 31/ Sept 1 2023
- Thread starter JHCCAZ
- Start date
I generally agree. My wife and I sought out a Model S without AP because we simply don't trust it. Several of our friends would use/abuse AP with defeat devices (pressure clamps on the steering wheel, etc) and would swear by the capabilities. Over time after software updates and driving on various roads, two friends had their cars jump curbs/medians causing suspension and wheel/tire damage to the tune of $4K...they stopped abusing AP and now use it the proper way but are now no longer singing its praises. They discovered that it simply doesn't work as well as they initially thought. To be fair, I'm sure it works better than I expect but I'm a control freak and generally want to understand the parameters in which it's suppose to work and not work. These EVs are the first vehicles I've ever owned without a manual transmission and without mechanical hand-brake...that's enough control that I'm giving up.
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racerx2005
Member
Subjective but I wouldn’t pay that much for it.
I bought all of AP/EAP/FSD for 5k during the fire sale in 2019 and for that price, I was pleased with the functionality. But not for 12k.
Just want to root out any confusion... it might be worth 4 *dollars*, not 4 *thousand dollars*.
ChooseFreedom
Member
I get what you're saying, however don't mistake reduced costs to a company as deflationary. If they don't pass that on to the consumers, it's not deflationary, it's just more profit for them. Tech advancements are supposed to increase productivity, reduce costs, and improve efficiencies. The deflation comes when the free market (i.e. competition) forces lower prices for all.
Inflation should actually be harder to create at a macro level in a truly free market. Whereas in a market with mostly monopolies (massive global corporations), or a market that is constantly being manipulated by the gov, "inflation" (greed) is inevitable.
But getting back to this thread's topic, I commend Tesla for not being greedy, and improving their product without passing on the expense to their customers. It's refreshing actually. Wish it were more common from more companies.
ATPMSD
Active Member
Remember the car comes with Autosteer, which is perfectly adequate for highways and major roadways. FSD adds city driving “Autosteer” with a few other features to support city driving. Is that worth $12K? Nope.
If you are interested, do not buy and instead try it via a subscription.
If you are interested, do not buy and instead try it via a subscription.
$12000 is hardly a bargain. We paid a total of $12000 for two cars to get up to FSD four years ago — and that was even pretty pricey. But if they permanently allow FSD transfers to future cars, it would be somewhat less of a ripoff. That’s why we got a new Y with an FSD transfer last month.
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Did they cut it on Model Y?
Edit: Ah, I see that they cut the price on ALL models. They should have done so some time ago.
Ignoring any subjective debate about safety, capability, unfilled past or future promises, you can take a very simplistic time value of money perspective to judge if $12k one time payment versus a pay as you go $200/mo cost is the better financial proposition. Much of this comes down to what you consider to be the appropriate rate of return for the how you view the value of 1 dollar today versus 1 dollar at some time in the future.
If I take a very modest view that at current market rates, I have multiple financial institutions I use that will pay me a guaranteed 5% rate on a fully insured 8-12 month CD. So using that, which some would say is a very conservative rate of return, it a little under 6 years (about 69-70 months) before a $200 a month payment stream to reach a break-even point. Anything shorter time horizon, I'm better off just paying the $200 a month. If my time horizon is longer than that, then I'd be money ahead in the long run to plop down the $12k now.
Now there are a wide range of events that can alter that simple comparison, like scenarios where I only rent maybe for periods of time, or the monthly use fee increases, or rates of financial return swing wildly. Most of those likely even further skew the benefit to the pay as you go scenario.
I also totally am aware that my simple analysis assigns no residual value to FSD on vehicle resale. But if we're again talking resale of a vehicle 6 years from now, my contention is it's likely not going to be adding much given you'd be talking what is also 6 year old hardware technology such that the FSD product your reselling likely does not compare to what someone would get buying a much newer product. So put me in the camp that the value of FSD from a resale value is little to none.
So without making it more complex than necessary, are you confident that you'll still be using this 6 years from now? If not, then likely not a good purchase decision to spend 12k today versus 200 a month.
Just my 2 cents ... which you can discount at what ever economic rate you wish!
If I take a very modest view that at current market rates, I have multiple financial institutions I use that will pay me a guaranteed 5% rate on a fully insured 8-12 month CD. So using that, which some would say is a very conservative rate of return, it a little under 6 years (about 69-70 months) before a $200 a month payment stream to reach a break-even point. Anything shorter time horizon, I'm better off just paying the $200 a month. If my time horizon is longer than that, then I'd be money ahead in the long run to plop down the $12k now.
Now there are a wide range of events that can alter that simple comparison, like scenarios where I only rent maybe for periods of time, or the monthly use fee increases, or rates of financial return swing wildly. Most of those likely even further skew the benefit to the pay as you go scenario.
I also totally am aware that my simple analysis assigns no residual value to FSD on vehicle resale. But if we're again talking resale of a vehicle 6 years from now, my contention is it's likely not going to be adding much given you'd be talking what is also 6 year old hardware technology such that the FSD product your reselling likely does not compare to what someone would get buying a much newer product. So put me in the camp that the value of FSD from a resale value is little to none.
So without making it more complex than necessary, are you confident that you'll still be using this 6 years from now? If not, then likely not a good purchase decision to spend 12k today versus 200 a month.
Just my 2 cents ... which you can discount at what ever economic rate you wish!
johnny_cakes
Member
Good analysis! Your calculations line up with mine. Now if we are to assume that there's residual value of $3000 for FSD, then the break-even point will shorten to 54 months.
Of course it's not as simple as that. The opportunity cost for most people is higher than 5% and investment gains are usually taxable, but this is a reasonable first approximation.
ATPMSD
Active Member
FSD stays with the car as long as the car does not pass through Tesla’s hands. However, if you trade it in to Tesla they will give you zero for it as they simply remove it and then resell the car without it. The new buyer will have to buy FSD from Tesla if they want it.
And Tesla will not buy it back if you decided you didn’t want it.
And Tesla will not buy it back if you decided you didn’t want it.
what would happen if Tesla insurance was the only brand you could get and they required FSD?
my state, Idaho, doesn't have Tesla insurance yet and I don't know where to go.
In my youth, I paid $279.99 for a flying, rainbow colored magical unicorn - to be delivered in 4-6 weeks. It never came, and I was not refunded.
Not falling for *that* again.
Not falling for *that* again.
I don't think I'd buy a Tesla. Or I'd find another carrier if I really wanted a Tesla and forego the snake oil.
FOOLSLFDRVNG
Member
Another Elon Musk false promise? You’re kidding! Color me shocked.
Tam
Well-Known Member
Like others have said, "No" at the current form and function.
I am among people who bought FSD for listening to the explanation that it's a solved problem and it should be a reality this year, then this year, then this year again since 2016, or the past 7 years.
After 7 years, it's been getting better and better, but with the inability to work with sensor fusion, I doubt Tesla's collision avoidance system will ever be reliable in my lifetime. See the article:
Tesla FSD Beta tried to kill me last night
I was testing Tesla’s latest Full Self-Driving (FSD) Beta update last night (v11.4.7), and a new aggressive bug has nearly...
electrek.co
I think I have learned my lesson and will only pay for the present function and not a future hope.
It's better to pay for a present product that works than a future hope that has not worked for the past 7 years.
