FSD. This should be interesting!

[Durzel]

FSD is a promise to implement full self driving. There are people who believe in this promise fully knowing that they personally may not benefit. Auto park and summon could improve in the future while the current focus is entirely on FSD beta public launch.

FSD wasn't (and still isn't) being sold as a dream to consumers buying Teslas. it's being sold, even today, as an actual realisable benefit, at some considerable cost.

Nowhere on the order page does it say that your money is going towards The Vision of the Future™, in actual fact Tesla has quietly removed features it said FSD was going to have "coming later this year". It just appears as an option that is supposed to augment the car.

If I had known that my £5,800 would basically be flushed down the toilet when I bought FSD in 2020, it having not changed or improved in the 2.5 years I've had the car, with Tesla launching EAP at half the price with 99% of the features, I wouldn't have paid for it, I would've just stuck my £5,800 into TSLA stock instead if I was buying into The Vision™. That decision would've paid dividends financially, too. More fool me I guess for not assuming the worst and having researched through all of Musk's blatent embellishments (to put it mildly) when it comes to timescales.

FSD is - in my opinion - recklessly sold in this country by Tesla who are well aware of the limitations and the timescales that are being faced to unrestrict it. They must know, and I would argue do know, that no one buying it now will realise a benefit within several years due to regulations and Tesla's US-centric focus, particularly as it is not transferrable to replacement cars. People buying FSD now could very well not realise any benefit from purchasing it, particularly if they're on finance as most people are.

New and prospective customers have every reason to trust what the order page says at face value. When I placed my order it said "Automatic driving on city streets" (aka FSD beta) was "coming later this year" (2020). That disappeared from the page, and now it just says "Upcoming". I still think its fraudulent to even sell it now, knowing how completely crippled it is.

I have no idea why you're banging the drum so hard for the richest man in the World, selling cars with the biggest margin, while owners basically feel ripped off. it reads a lot like blind zealotry.

 

[Casss]

When it comes to Musk it’s more like 99% dreaming and 1% implementation. His track record on fulfilling promises about FSD are appalling. Which is why I’m constantly amazed that there are still so many remarkably gullible people out there who are convinced by the complete crap he comes out with.

Why they let him continue to make promises on deadlines and string customers along is absolutely baffling to me. Maybe he gets advised not to and just ignores them to keep pumping the stock.

The reason they keep failing is they've decided to take the hardest path to implementation, not the shortest (like other manufacturers).

 

[Cardo]

FSD wasn't (and still isn't) being sold as a dream to consumers buying Teslas. it's being sold, even today, as an actual realisable benefit, at some considerable cost.

Nowhere on the order page does it say that your money is going towards The Vision of the Future™, in actual fact Tesla has quietly removed features it said FSD was going to have "coming later this year". It just appears as an option that is supposed to augment the car.

If I had known in 2020 that my £5,800 would basically be flushed down the toilet when I bought FSD in 2020, it having not changed or improved in the 2.5 years I've had the car, with Tesla launching EAP at half the price with 99% of the features, I wouldn't have paid for it, I would've just stuck my £5,800 into TSLA stock instead if I was buying into The Vision™. That decision would've paid dividends financially, too. More fool me I guess for not assuming the worst and having researched through all of Musk's blatent embellishments (to put it mildly) when it comes to timescales.

FSD is - in my opinion - recklessly sold in this country by Tesla who are well aware of the limitations and the timescales that are being faced to unrestrict it. New and prospective customers are the least informed about this, and have every reason to trust what the order page says at face value. When I placed my order it said "Automatic driving on city streets" (aka FSD beta) was "coming later this year" (2020). That disappeared from the page, and now it just says "Upcoming". I still think its fraudulent to even sell it now, knowing how completely crippled it is.

I have no idea why you're banging the drum so hard for the richest man in the World, selling cars with the biggest margin, while owners basically feel ripped off. it reads a lot like blind zealotry.

I‘m fully with you. I‘m expecting a successful lawsuit to come through where Tesla ends up being ordered to refund all those FSD payments. As you say, not only have promised features not appeared, but FSD-only features have been moved to AP/EAP, further diluting the value. As an investor, I’m concerned they will have this coming and it won’t be cheap for them. Though, it’s mostly unrealised profit, so it shouldn’t affect the bottom line, too much.

 

[Durzel]

I'm waiting until next year - the 3 year anniversary of purchasing the car - before deciding what to do. I'm 70/30 at the moment thinking of simply requesting either a partial (downgraded to EAP) or full refund of the cost of FSD. Likely it'll be the latter, since I don't particularly think EAP is worth the money either given the extent of the restrictions.

If that fails - as I would suspect - then I would be looking to file a small claim as it having been missold to me. Not looking for compensation, save perhaps lost interest on the capital, but I expect redress. It has been a sobering lesson to be honest. Early on in 2020 I would have been much like @prabhu, blindly towing the party line and championing everything Musk and Tesla do.

As it is I am not convinced we will see FSD beta over here in another 3 years, to be honest, long past the point I would have anticipated selling the car (and I expect HW4 and beyond to be out before then, which will probably be incompatible as a retrofit), so it's fair to say I would have received no benefit from having bought it.

 

[Cardo]

I'm waiting until next year - the 3 year anniversary of purchasing the car - before deciding what to do. I'm 70/30 at the moment thinking of simply requesting either a partial (downgraded to EAP) or full refund of the cost of FSD. Likely it'll be the latter, since I don't particularly think EAP is worth the money either given the extent of the restrictions.

If that fails - as I would suspect - then I would be looking to file a small claim as it having been missold to me. Not looking for compensation, save perhaps lost interest on the capital, but I expect redress. It has been a sobering lesson to be honest. Early on in 2020 I would have been much like @prabhu, blindly towing the party line and championing everything Musk and Tesla do. I am not convinced we will see FSD beta over here in another 3 years, to be honest.

I was thinking about FSD whilst driving along a windy (windey?) A road, yesterday. Bearing in mind AP shits a veritable brick just driving past a parked car on the side of the road, I was wondering how it could possibly manage overtaking a slow moving cyclist. Without significant improvement (exponential, as opposed to FSD beta’s current iterative improvements), I just don’t see how the car could ever manage our roads on its own. I see this as being 10+ years away, as a minimum, and only after some groundbreaking technological advances, which our current cars will never be suited for.

Just my opinion, as someone who very gullibly sunk £6800 in a feature that offers practically no benefit.

 

[doats1]

I agree that current hardware won't cut it. But I reckon that if it's possible, it will happen sooner than 10 years.

Moore's law and all that.

 

[Hurricane]

I can promise you there are several thousand happy Tesla owners in the UK. This forum is not representative of this in any shape or form. I honestly cant wait to test FSD and have a much realistic understanding of how long producing a realworld AI might take.

How do you know, have you asked them all? And do these thousands of happy owners all have FSD and declare themes to be satisfied with it?

 

[Dilly]

And this is going to go down well…

Tesla is borrowing Autopilot team for Optimus humanoid robot project — Electrek

Elon Musk said that Tesla is borrowing the Autopilot team for its Optimus humanoid robot project, which has a deadline at the end of the month.

apple.news

 

[Drrobmiller]

Taken the car on March 2020 and I believed Elon when tell for the finished 2020 will be 1M robotaxi
I said: shut up and take my money...

I bought mine 2020 was told that fsd was complete and they were just waiting for the feds to lift the regulations by the end of the year. So my thinking was buy the car and I'd have invested in a robotaxi. I wish i recorded the conversation with the tesla sales rep.

R

 

[Durzel]

I agree that current hardware won't cut it. But I reckon that if it's possible, it will happen sooner than 10 years.

Moore's law and all that.

I think 10 years is realistic, although I would suspect a reasonable part of that would be UNECE having an abundance of caution.

It's a pretty big deal for a vehicle to potentially hit someone when driving autonomously. There's also a bunch of stuff to work out like who is responsible for a car driving autonomously once this stuff gets to really crazy levels - the driver, the company that makes it?

I don't think we'll see FSD beta here for another 3 years personally. I think Elon will say it's coming and that they're "working with the regulators", but that ultimately nothing will happen. I think people seriously underestimate the glacial pace at which this stuff changes, I know I did back in 2020.

 

[G4WFT]

I can promise you there are several thousand happy Tesla owners in the UK. This forum is not representative of this in any shape or form. I honestly cant wait to test FSD and have a much realistic understanding of how long producing a realworld AI might take.

Can we have your source to validate this statement please? I can't imagine why a Tesla forum wouldn't be reasonably representative.

 

[browellm]

We're all at the mercy of confirmation bias, but it's generally good form to make some effort.

 

[yessuz]

Visionaries think big and tend to be overconfident in their view. Dreaming is just 1%, and implementation is the remaining 99% and would take lots of hard work and commitment. Elon even said he would send humans to Mars in a decade. To send a human to the moon in a decade took a million people to work together with unlimited funding. We know things are possible, but it is a question of time and money.

Elon said also to make hyperloop tunnels "like vacuum tube" and to "travel 600 miles an hour" and also to use SpaceX to fly from NY to Sydney in couple of hours.

all cars have same hardware, compatible with AP/FSD as per sales sheets and car information. and yet car shits bricks and violently breaks at motorway speeds when it sees the shadow or passes the truck.

Rose tint glasses are fine, but this is just straight delusional

 

[G4WFT]

Elon said also to make hyperloop tunnels "like vacuum tube" and to "travel 600 miles an hour" and also to use SpaceX to fly from NY to Sydney in couple of hours.

all cars have same hardware, compatible with AP/FSD as per sales sheets and car information. and yet car shits bricks and violently breaks at motorway speeds when it sees the shadow or passes the truck.

Rose tint glasses are fine, but this is just straight delusional

It's what happens when "fanboyitis" gets out of control.

 

[doats1]

I think 10 years is realistic, although I would suspect a reasonable part of that would be UNECE having an abundance of caution.

It's a pretty big deal for a vehicle to potentially hit someone when driving autonomously. There's also a bunch of stuff to work out like who is responsible for a car driving autonomously once this stuff gets to really crazy levels - the driver, the company that makes it?

I don't think we'll see FSD beta here for another 3 years personally. I think Elon will say it's coming and that they're "working with the regulators", but that ultimately nothing will happen. I think people seriously underestimate the glacial pace at which this stuff changes, I know I did back in 2020.

I'm regularly back and forth about when I think FSD will leave NA and I agree that it's likely to be around 2-5 years. But there'll be a lot of learning that Tesla won't have to revisit in as much detail when rolling out to other regions. Regulatory obstacles can be tackled in parallel, which can also potential be CTRL-C/CTRL-V to some extent, and as time goes on and ML capacity will pick up pace with more data points and general advancements in technology.

These factors can potentially move things much quicker than in the past. Either way, I'd be thinking about getting my money back if I paid for this in the UK.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Can we have your source to validate this statement please? I can't imagine why a Tesla forum wouldn't be reasonably representative.

I can accept there are thousands happy.

It’s just a shame that’s of the 2 million owners.

 

[yessuz]

about what FSD capability we can talk when even auto high beam cannot be set up properly and camera is either unable to identify lights (rear or ongoig traffic or even street illumination) or there's monkeys at their programming dept who cannot write a simple script which would say: if I there are ANY lights which can be visible from afar - turn off high beam.
super simple concept which work on all other cars an yet managed to be screwed up on Tesla with its computing power which puts anything built in 2015 to a shame...

but yet, there are people talking how happy they are with the way FSD on their car works. I wonder, what does that FSD do?!

 

[Dilly]

And this is going to go down well…

Tesla is borrowing Autopilot team for Optimus humanoid robot project — Electrek

Elon Musk said that Tesla is borrowing the Autopilot team for its Optimus humanoid robot project, which has a deadline at the end of the month.

apple.news

Now I get it. FSD will never work but the robot will drive the car….

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Some might just be happy, and to be honest, that’s fine if they are, we shouldn’t tell them to be unhappy any more than they should tell is to be happy.

It’s also worth remembering people like gangzoom. If I remember correctly, only paid about £1k for FSD (that might have been the uplift from EAP) and so their ‘value’ is different to ours, especially if they then got an MCU2 at a cheaper price. It’s easier to think something is good value if you paid very little for it.

 

[NewbieT]

I think 10 years is realistic, although I would suspect a reasonable part of that would be UNECE having an abundance of caution.

It's a pretty big deal for a vehicle to potentially hit someone when driving autonomously. There's also a bunch of stuff to work out like who is responsible for a car driving autonomously once this stuff gets to really crazy levels - the driver, the company that makes it?

I don't think we'll see FSD beta here for another 3 years personally. I think Elon will say it's coming and that they're "working with the regulators", but that ultimately nothing will happen. I think people seriously underestimate the glacial pace at which this stuff changes, I know I did back in 2020.

The law is already developed to cover off the insurance angle. Installing software updates basically won’t be optional in future.

Automated and Electric Vehicles Act 2018

www.legislation.gov.uk