FSD Transfer - NO - but Tesla says it's really OK

[Hookemhorns]

On the earnings call last week, Tesla was asked about FSD transfer. They said they really effectively do that, because when you trade in your car to them they increase the trade-in allowance because you have FSD, so you can just purchase it with your new car using the extra trade in money.

Whatever. If it is totaled in an accident, or you sell it to someone else, too bad for you.

But, they do have a point, if they do actually give you enough more if you have FSD on the car. My question - does anyone have any hard or even anecdotal data that reveals the delta amount they increase the trade-in offer if you have FSD? Maybe this really is something they do well, but they sure seem to be equivocal in their statements.

 

[Ramphex]

I think it would be a very generous move to make FSD as user-locked feature and not a vehicle-locked feature.

 

[rxlawdude]

On the earnings call last week, Tesla was asked about FSD transfer. They said they really effectively do that, because when you trade in your car to them they increase the trade-in allowance because you have FSD, so you can just purchase it with your new car using the extra trade in money.

Whatever. If it is totaled in an accident, or you sell it to someone else, too bad for you.

But, they do have a point, if they do actually give you enough more if you have FSD on the car. My question - does anyone have any hard or even anecdotal data that reveals the delta amount they increase the trade-in offer if you have FSD? Maybe this really is something they do well, but they sure seem to be equivocal in their statements.

From earlier reports (back in early '21 and during '20), reports were that Tesla was giving nothing extra for FSD trade ins. And, some have accused (unverified!!) Tesla then removing FSD from the traded-in cars.

Double dipping.

 

[glide]

Tesla pays nothing extra for FSD when trading in.

Aftermarket 3rd party sales also offer a very small premium for FSD.

Basically it’s worthless unless you plan on keeping your car forever and you enjoy using it.

There are some delusional fanbois who feel differently but their feelings are not backed up by any real-world data. These are also the same people who think a fleet of robo-taxis is coming next year and their base-level, rear-wheel drive Model 3 will be worth $100,000.

 

[alexgr]

I think it would be a very generous move to make FSD as user-locked feature and not a vehicle-locked feature.

As they made it a subscription feature, I see no more reason to purchase the FSD with my next vehicle. You have to drive over 50 months to justify the purchase vs subscription. At 10k it would be a logical move to make it transferable, otherwise it will make no sense pretty soon.

 

[rxlawdude]

As they made it a subscription feature, I see no more reason to purchase the FSD with my next vehicle. You have to drive over 50 months to justify the purchase vs subscription. At 10k it would be a logical move to make it transferable, otherwise it will make no sense pretty soon.

Unless a hardware update is necessary. Subscription owners will need to actually pay for the hardware update, while those who purchased FSD will receive those updates as included in what they paid months or years before.

 

[eli_]

Unless a hardware update is necessary. Subscription owners will need to actually pay for the hardware update, while those who purchased FSD will receive those updates as included in what they paid months or years before.

That's true, the HW3 upgrade is $1000 for subscribers. Figure you'll have one HW4 upgrade over the car's ownership period. So in that case you'd need to drive 45 months instead of 50.

 

[rxlawdude]

That's true, the HW3 upgrade is $1000 for subscribers. Figure you'll have one HW4 upgrade over the car's ownership period. So in that case you'd need to drive 45 months instead of 50.

Yes, but you won't be able to whine and complain for years like those who purchased. (I purchased, but am not whining nor complaining.)

 

[alexgr]

Unless a hardware update is necessary. Subscription owners will need to actually pay for the hardware update, while those who purchased FSD will receive those updates as included in what they paid months or years before.

But all new cars are coming with HW3. And probably they will come with HW4 later next year or in 2023.

 

[wensai]

Yes I've noticed you've never whined or complained rxlawdude. You are a great guy, Tesla is very proud of you.

 

[rxlawdude]

But all new cars are coming with HW3. And probably they will come with HW4 later next year or in 2023.

And then there are those with HW2, who so far only have an Elon tweet promising to update their hardware (including cameras) to function with FSD. It's these legacy owners that I'm concerned with. Especially those who sold or otherwise disposed of their vehicle without getting much in the way of promised functionality. Remember that Tesla did not recognize revenue from FSD purchases, but rather listed this as a liabilty on the balance sheet.

 

[Hookemhorns]

So where did the revenue go if a car, say was totaled? Or was traded in and they removed it?
Do they then count the FSD deposit as revenue?

 

[EVNow]

From earlier reports (back in early '21 and during '20), reports were that Tesla was giving nothing extra for FSD trade ins.

Tesla pays nothing extra for FSD when trading in.

I'm fairly sure Tesla gives something extra for FSD cars. How much that is - who knows.

But I'm > 99% sure Zach wouldn't lie on a ER call. SEC doesn't like something like that.

 

[alexgr]

So where did the revenue go if a car, say was totaled? Or was traded in and they removed it?
Do they then count the FSD deposit as revenue?

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[rxlawdude]

I'm fairly sure Tesla gives something extra for FSD cars. How much that is - who knows.

But I'm > 99% sure Zach wouldn't lie on a ER call. SEC doesn't like something like that.

Yes, but that statement is about current practice. The old Tesla.com (RIP!) fora were littered with posts from folks trading in for newer models and not getting jack for FSD. And of course, no credit towards the replacement vehicle's FSD.

 

[rxlawdude]

So where did the revenue go if a car, say was totaled? Or was traded in and they removed it?
Do they then count the FSD deposit as revenue?

Great question, but it does again bring up why I believe someone in this situation whose car was totalled after FSD (or sold the car - note that KBB recently was shown to value FSD on a Tesla at $500) was paid for is entitled to at least a portion of the FSD cost refunded.

 

[glide]

I'm fairly sure Tesla gives something extra for FSD cars. How much that is - who knows.

But I'm > 99% sure Zach wouldn't lie on a ER call. SEC doesn't like something like that.

Well they didn’t as of last quarter. I requested a trade in, got a price, purchased FSD, requested a new trade in quote, guess what? Same price.

There is no incentive for them to offer owners anything for FSD. To them, it is simply a software lock they can remove and sell again to the next sucker…I mean buyer.

Also, I’m pretty sure Tesla lies on earnings calls all the time. Musk has made his position pretty clear on what he thinks of the SEC.

 

[Draginol]

It’s pretty baffling that they won’t transfer it, especially those who bought it 5 years ago and can’t even access the FSD beta.

 

[EVNow]

Well they didn’t as of last quarter. I requested a trade in, got a price, purchased FSD, requested a new trade in quote, guess what? Same price.

Care to show your paperwork.

Otherwise lodge a compliant with SEC. They can figure out what the truth is.

 

[EVNow]

It’s pretty baffling that they won’t transfer it, especially those who bought it 5 years ago and can’t even access the FSD beta.

It definitely seems fair to offer some kind of incentive.

But then - they have almost a year long order-book. So there is hardly any economic reason to do so ...