FSD Upgrade Price reduced from $5K to $3K in MyTesla Page for Model S

[emmz0r]

I don't read every thread but I read quite a few; care to link to exactly what you're talking about?

Tesla autopilot HW3

You still don't get what I'm saying. I expect what they are currently promising to work on HW3 and maybe on HW2/2.5. I do not ever expect L3+ city driving to happen on either one of them, but they are not currently promising L3+ even on the highway, let alone local roads. I am not referring to Elon's tweetspew -- I'm talking about the actual order description on the order page.

Different opinions. We shall see. I hold that HW3 is necessary to provide a satisfactory experience of what they are promising.

And I believe that HW2/2.5 might have enough capacity to do a bad job (<99.999%) at recognizing and "responding to" (which, again, is very vague) traffic lights and stop signs. Frankly this is not that hard. This has been demonstrated many years ago on lesser hardware.

Yes, it will manage to do it, but poorly. Also the many of the "demonstrations" are usually done on predetermined routes, almost moving into "fake" territory.

Yeah. And? Confirmation or not, if it requires supervision, then they are are free to deliver something which is not reliable enough to operate unsupervised. What matters to how hard this is has little to do with confirmation and everything to do with supervision.

Yes they are free to deliver something that totally sucks and is completely useless and dangerous on HW2. But will they?

Does it? Where does it say that on the order page? I don't care about Teslarati articles; you're not buying what's in the Teslarati article, you're buying what's on the order page.

Just for Karpathy's quote.

 

[iTech]

between the way my 2.0 car and 2.5 cars act I would definitely say my HW2.0 can’t handle much more.

That's probably the radar being different.

 

[BigTonyTones]

Bit the bullet and bought fsd. Let's see how this unravels

 

[rnortman]

Different opinions. We shall see. I hold that HW3 is necessary to provide a satisfactory experience of what they are promising.

And my assertion is that they are under no obligation to provide "a satisfactory experience".

Yes they are free to deliver something that totally sucks and is completely useless and dangerous on HW2.

Yes, thank you, this is my entire point. If they can deliver something that does exactly what the order page currently says on HW2/2.5, then they are free to do that without upgrading people to HW3. I am trying to counter the assertions that Tetsla is somehow obligated to upgrade to HW3.

But will they?

If they can get away with it, I believe that is exactly what they will do. They are not a charity.

The much more interesting question is what they will do for people who bought their cars (and EAP or FSD) before they changed the product descriptions. Or rather, what if anything they will be forced to do in court.

 

[SucreTease]

There is an even clear statement from Elon:

And further still (Elon Musk on Twitter):

 

[KArnold]

Personally I've given up on anything Elon says. The man has zero integrity. Call it marketing, good business, whatever you want - just don't call it truth. I really hope he does come through this time but I just don't believe anything he says anymore.

 

[rnortman]

Personally I've given up on anything Elon says. The man has zero integrity.

"Integrity" is a somewhat debatable trait with respect to Elon (somewhat debatable mind), but I think it is extremely clear that he has zero credibility and zero reliability. The fact that he makes a promise or a statement about a future timeline or feature has zero informational content with respect to whether that timeline or feature will ever materialize. Citing Elon's tweets is pointless -- they are completely unreliable. You might as well cite a Ouija board.

 

[Mark_T]

Yes, thank you, this is my entire point. If they can deliver something that does exactly what the order page currently says on HW2/2.5, then they are free to do that without upgrading people to HW3. I am trying to counter the assertions that Tetsla is somehow obligated to upgrade to HW3.

I don't disagree with this, I've been saying for a while now that the trigger for HW3 upgrades has to be something classified as part of the FSD package that cannot be delivered on the version of hardware in the car of someone who has already paid for FSD...

Doesn't stop them releasing features that require HW3 that are not part of FSD.

Also doesn't stop them releasing things that work poorly on anything except HW3.

The tricky bit is that everyone who has paid for FSD is not equal. Recent purchasers don't have the same promises regarding what constitutes FSD as the original purchasers...

 

[rnortman]

The tricky bit is that everyone who has paid for FSD is not equal. Recent purchasers don't have the same promises regarding what constitutes FSD as the original purchasers...

Indeed. In fact the original EAP descriptions seem to include things that are not even part of the current FSD package, though some of the wording is a bit fuzzy so they may be able to weasel out of those things. But it is clear that new FSD is not much more than old EAP, with the addition of some still-unspecified "response" to traffic lights and stop signs.

Which is frankly exactly what level-headed people have been predicting since the day of the AP2/FSD announcement...

 

[ahkahn]

"Integrity" is a somewhat debatable trait with respect to Elon (somewhat debatable mind), but I think it is extremely clear that he has zero credibility and zero reliability. The fact that he makes a promise or a statement about a future timeline or feature has zero informational content with respect to whether that timeline or feature will ever materialize. Citing Elon's tweets is pointless -- they are completely unreliable. You might as well cite a Ouija board.

You guys gotta understand that Elon is a visionary. That's it. He knows what is possible, what could be possible, and when asked a question he answers with an answer that a true visionary would. Ask him about about going back to the moon, and in his mind, it's simple and easily achievable... and he will tell you that... but clearly it's not. The only thing he is guilty of is answering too optimistic, and a lot of non-visionary types struggle to relate to these types of answers, and because of that, question his integrity. It's a fair thing to question his integrity, credibility, or reliability, but when you look at him answering from a visionary angle, it all makes sense.

 

[iTech]

You guys gotta understand that Elon is a visionary. That's it. He knows what is possible, what could be possible, and when asked a question he answers with an answer that a true visionary would. Ask him about about going back to the moon, and in his mind, it's simple and easily achievable... and he will tell you that... but clearly it's not. The only thing he is guilty of is answering too optimistic, and a lot of non-visionary types struggle to relate to these types of answers, and because of that, question his integrity. It's a fair thing to question his integrity, credibility, or reliability, but when you look at him answering from a visionary angle, it all makes sense.

elizabeth holmes has entered the chat room

 

[boonedocks]

You guys gotta understand that Elon is a visionary. That's it. He knows what is possible, what could be possible, and when asked a question he answers with an answer that a true visionary would. Ask him about about going back to the moon, and in his mind, it's simple and easily achievable... and he will tell you that... but clearly it's not. The only thing he is guilty of is answering too optimistic, and a lot of non-visionary types struggle to relate to these types of answers, and because of that, question his integrity. It's a fair thing to question his integrity, credibility, or reliability, but when you look at him answering from a visionary angle, it all makes sense.

Maybe Elon the visionary should NOT be the one answering and bantering on Twitter then. Smh smh smh

 

[Mr.D]

I wish the clarification about the HW3 upgrade came during the price drop to 2K, then I would have bought it... now I am just pissed I didn’t... however buying for 5K now is never gonna happen! Especially when “all” I get is red light stopping and driving in the city...

 

[Pinot.Noir]

I wish the clarification about the HW3 upgrade came during the price drop to 2K, then I would have bought it... now I am just pissed I didn’t... however buying for 5K now is never gonna happen! Especially when “all” I get is red light stopping and driving in the city...

These are expensive cars. In the grand scheme, $2k was 1.6 percent of my original purchase price. I don't get why anybody who owns a Tesla wouldn't jump at the $2k price, particularly when they knew it was going back up!

 

[Mr.D]

Thanks for rubbing it in
And yes, in the after thought it was a no brainer choice!

 

[iTech]

Thanks for rubbing it in
And yes, in the after thought it was a no brainer choice!

You don't know what the future holds, people could've paid $2k for something that might never be "FSD".

 

[ahkahn]

Maybe Elon the visionary should NOT be the one answering and bantering on Twitter then. Smh smh smh

Perhaps, perhaps not. Pick your poison. I guess the alternative is to not know a thing about what they're doing, or their future plans, and just be surprised with each software update. I prefer it the way it is, and know to take what he says with a grain of salt. I'd take that over a tight-lipped corporation any day. You guys gotta be careful what you wish for.

 

[Flyguy]

Perhaps, perhaps not. Pick your poison. I guess the alternative is to not know a thing about what they're doing, or their future plans, and just be surprised with each software update. I prefer it the way it is, and know to take what he says with a grain of salt. I'd take that over a tight-lipped corporation any day. You guys gotta be careful what you wish for.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Pick your poison. I guess the alternative is to not know a thing about what they're doing, or their future plans, and just be surprised with each software update. I prefer it the way it is, and know to take what he says with a grain of salt. I'd take that over a tight-lipped corporation any day. You guys gotta be careful what you wish for.

I just really have to agree with this. I respect Elon’s staunch belief in his First Amendment rights. It is disappointing when he says stupid things (i.e. pedo, going private, etc.), let alone all the things that have never come to fruition. But, I still marvel at the fact that he has built a car company that no other car company can touch at the moment. He didn’t do that by keeping his ideas to himself.

 

[ucmndd]

I don't get why anybody who owns a Tesla wouldn't jump at the $2k price, particularly when they knew it was going back up!

Because it’s a scam at $2k just like it is at $5k.

 

[Ludalicious]

Red light camera recognition is well worth the 2k IMO. But seeing how I dont actually have it yet and purchased FSD I should shut my mouth.

Spoke with tech support the other day while following up on another issue and he said that when the HW3 computer is available and ready to be retrofitted to my HW2 vehicle. I will receive a service notification in my vehicle to bring it in.