I don't think it was ever about streaming an FSD beta test drive. He was joking about streaming a fight at Zuck's house which was never in the cards. Streaming a v12 test drive would be a good laugh though.So did the livestream happen? I can't find anything.
Elon replied this:
I am getting the feeling Elon was just trolling Zuckerberg and there was no livestream of FSD beta V12.
The sad reality is that Elon seems to get caught up in these silly feuds. It undermines his credibility IMO.
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FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
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- Tags
- #fixphantombraking 12.4.x is coming autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass elon rocks fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd doesn't read signs properly fsd hard and late braking fsd has decision wobble fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd sometimes may not detect train crossings fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd stops when there is zero visibility fsd tailgating in city streets fsd very slow at stops fsd will never enable l3 with hw4
Paint it black, part deux. Totally meaningless datapoint. They will clearly use this week to test drive the predetermined route until it's as perfect as FSD can get.
If they had any balls they would invite a real journalist (that isn't a stan) to sit in the car and tell them where to drive without prior knowledge and in a more challenging environment than Palo Alto.
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If it really is a live stream, he's still taking quite a risk. Anything can happen on a drive as long as it's a public road with real traffic. There will be tremendous negative press if there is a substantial FSD failure while Elon is at the wheel.
goRt
Active Member
See the recent presidential nomination announcement for how well musky's live streams go - and that was in a fixed location
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I am skeptical the livestream will happen. We all know how unreliable Elon's "next week" or "two weeks" predictions are. And I would not be surprised at all if the livestream gets postponed. Elon can use one of his common excuses like "V12 still needs some polish. In 2 weeks, it will be ready and we will do the livestream then". But if the livestream does happen, it will likely be a short, easy route, at night with low traffic to minimize the risks.
He will be running an X Spaces.
I will guarantee this one for you. He was ready this week.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
I believe Elon is capable of many great things. Punctuality is generally not one of them.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I mean we know Tesla took 500+ miles of footage over dozens of takes and edited it into a single short video they presented as a single take for the 2016 FSD demo.
Serious question: how do we know that? People have pointed to the Ashok deposition, but I read it and did not find support for the stitched together senario. Rather, it supported the opposite.
I feel like we've discussed this before, so apologies for forgetting the reference if so. Search failed me. Oh, is this multiple videos issue? Paint it Black vs downtown drive?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Can you quote where you read the opposite?
Also we have the CA DMV info where the # of miles and # of drives is actually called out and matches that story as well-it's 500 miles of a few miles at a time or less between interventions that was all filmed to get just enough usable footage to splice together to a single video without telling anyone it wasn't a single video.
Yeah this is the 2016 video, not the AI day one. It was Fake As Fake Can Be without having just been CGI.
It's a supercut according to many reports including the NY Times documentary which interviewed multiple sources that were involved in making the video.
The quote in my message was Ashok's deposition. I read it a: it wasn't the first take, but the video was all from one take.
That only shows there were multiple attempts, which is what Ashok said. It doesn't mean the video wasn't from a fully successful attempt.
Did it do it versus did it do it every time.
2016 being Paint it Black? And which are you calling FAFCB? (Sorry, I'm losing context here)
Edit: with the huge caveat that Ashok said ge wasn't hands on with the whole video thing.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
"A 2016 video that Tesla (TSLA.O) used to promote its self-driving technology was staged to show capabilities like stopping at a red light and accelerating at a green light that the system did not have, according to testimony by a senior engineer."
"But the Model X was not driving itself with technology Tesla had deployed, Ashok Elluswamy, director of Autopilot software at Tesla, said in the transcript of a July deposition taken as evidence in a lawsuit against Tesla for a 2018 fatal crash involving a former Apple (AAPL.O) engineer."
"Elluswamy said Tesla’s Autopilot team set out to engineer and record a “demonstration of the system’s capabilities” at the request of Musk."
"To create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.
Drivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.
“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters."
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Tesla video promoting self-driving was staged, engineer testifies
A 2016 video that Tesla used to promote its self-driving technology was staged to show capabilities like stopping at a red light and accelerating at a green light that the system did not have, according to testimony by a senior engineer.
www.reuters.com
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Yup- all of that.
As I say we know from CA DMV data Tesla recorded over 500 miles of attempted self-driving for that one short video and had to constantly intervene because the system was complete garbage- then they took all those 500+ miles and edited together footage into a single video then sped it up so it all looked like 1 take instead of tons and tons of brief clips spliced together.
Shady AF.
EDIT-
This is from 2017 specifically about the DMV data for more context-
Tesla recorded 550 miles of autonomous CA driving in 2016- 530 of those all in the 4 day period during which they filmed the footage for the paint it black video.
They also stopped filming during rush hours each day to avoid more challenging conditions.
Further details in there including the weather providing some more info and Tesla actually pushing the reveal date back because the first couple days footage didn't give them enough usable film to splice together.
177 disengagements in those 4 days of driving BTW- less than 3 miles between each on average.
As I say we know from CA DMV data Tesla recorded over 500 miles of attempted self-driving for that one short video and had to constantly intervene because the system was complete garbage- then they took all those 500+ miles and edited together footage into a single video then sped it up so it all looked like 1 take instead of tons and tons of brief clips spliced together.
Shady AF.
EDIT-
This is from 2017 specifically about the DMV data for more context-
Tesla recorded 550 miles of autonomous CA driving in 2016- 530 of those all in the 4 day period during which they filmed the footage for the paint it black video.
They also stopped filming during rush hours each day to avoid more challenging conditions.
Further details in there including the weather providing some more info and Tesla actually pushing the reveal date back because the first couple days footage didn't give them enough usable film to splice together.
177 disengagements in those 4 days of driving BTW- less than 3 miles between each on average.
Yah, which is a spun version of the deposition."A 2016 video that Tesla (TSLA.O) used to promote its self-driving technology was staged to show capabilities like stopping at a red light and accelerating at a green light that the system did not have, according to testimony by a senior engineer."
"But the Model X was not driving itself with technology Tesla had deployed, Ashok Elluswamy, director of Autopilot software at Tesla, said in the transcript of a July deposition taken as evidence in a lawsuit against Tesla for a 2018 fatal crash involving a former Apple (AAPL.O) engineer."
"Elluswamy said Tesla’s Autopilot team set out to engineer and record a “demonstration of the system’s capabilities” at the request of Musk."
"To create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.
Drivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.
“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters."
Tesla video promoting self-driving was staged, engineer testifies
A 2016 video that Tesla used to promote its self-driving technology was staged to show capabilities like stopping at a red light and accelerating at a green light that the system did not have, according to testimony by a senior engineer.
The issue of consumer software not being what was used in the video is not in question. My question is: where is the source for video being from multiple attempts spliced together.
The data doesn't let us know that though.
If attempt 1000 worked, attempt 1000 worked, regardless of attempts 1-999 failing.
People do bowl 300...
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I think what made it especially shady and dishonest is that Tesla deliberately hid the fact that it was staged and portrayed the demo as real. The video said "the driver is only there for legal reasons", implying that it was "eyes off". Tesla promoted the video as real autonomy that our cars would have. The FSD order page when you bought a new Tesla in 2016 used to say that AP2 cars had all the hardware necessary for FSD and this is what FSD will do "pending regulatory approval and validation" making it sound like the software was complete and was just passing final testing. If Tesla had said "this is a staged concept demo designed to show what FSD might look like in the future", I think they would have been ok.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Even if you are right that somehow they just filmed the one lucky attempt that had no interventions, it was still shady AF. They did not disclose that they premapped the route to help the car. They did not disclose that they did multiple attempts that required driver interventions. They did not disclose that the car crashed when it tried to auto park. They did not disclose that they added code to do things like traffic light response which the current AP to the public could not do. But they presented the video as real "eyes off" autonomy. They sold cars in 2016, claiming AP2 was sufficient for FSD and that FSD just needed "regulatory approval and validation". Tesla definitely misrepresented FSD to the public.
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