FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[HitchHiker71]

I actually love new members. I encourage all to post as much as they like. What I think is comical is new users who THINK they know more then the people who have been using the software for years. That is why we have 2 ears and 1 mouth. It seems you might have that philosophy backwards.
Either way, post away. You are always welcome here.

Oh, and I wouldn't consider myself as a troll, but possibly could be. I make jokes about people who I have posted with, and have made fun of each other for years to lighten the mood between new software releases.

I do like the "Circle Jerk Old Guard" comment... that one actually suits me well! Maybe I will change my profile to that one and give you credit.
Edit - Fixed, thanks for the idea!

Last thing, I have 55K plus miles of FSDB and FSDS... When you get within 50K of those miles, then hop back on your high horse.

I think it's worth pointing out that while past experience matters, it doesn't matter as much within the context of an entirely new FSD v12 build that was a complete rewrite from the ground up that uses a completely different AI end-to-end approach (at least for city streets) when compared to all prior versions. So while experience with FSD use cases and other points certainly may help, some of the base assumptions have likely changed with FSD v12 and need to be challenged. In some cases, that past experience can actually serve as a roadblock to progress regarding how the new code base actually functions vs past FSD versions.

As someone who has managed personnel for over 20 years, whenever I bring in a new hire, I explicitly instruct them that I will meet with them at 30, 60, and 90 days, and my goal is to capture their fresh outside perspectives on what's working and what's not working. Too often, institutional knowledge from long time employees actually serves to prevent forward progress, so I encourage net new employees with a fresh outside perspective to be as open and honest as is possible - to challenge narratives and processes inbred into the company culture over time by those with the most institutional knowledge/past experience. It's a balancing act in other words - and I think this same concept applies at least to some extent when it comes to getting new and fresh perspectives on the new FSD v12 version.

 

[LSDTester#1]

…

I do like the "Circle Jerk Old Guard" comment... that one actually suits me well! Maybe I will change my profile to that one and give you credit.
Edit - Fixed, thanks for the idea!

Does this have anything to do with the beaver?

 

[lzolman]

Interesting. I find any long drive tiring and much less so on FSD. Might be age related.

Serious question: What about driving on a four lane for twelve hours? We did some twelve hour drives on a road trip, and I wouldn't have done that without FSD.

Having done a solo coast-to-coast round trip and a couple more close-to-that solo road trips in the past two years, I can absolutely attest to the fatigue reduction of using FSD. At one point I was heading South approaching Yellowstone, planning to spend the night there, when an approaching storm forced me to change plans and head right through and onto I80E to Cheyenne. I ended up in whiteout conditions at 1am after driving for 16 hours, having to just stop at one point until the plow came by and then falling in line behind it, getting into Cheyenne around 3am.

That could have been a lot worse had I have had to "do my own driving" for most of the day and night. The way it worked out, it was just an interesting, long day. But it really taught me the value of FSD.

 

[LSDTester#1]

I think it's worth pointing out that while past experience matters, it doesn't matter as much within the context of an entirely new FSD v12 build that was a complete rewrite from the ground up that uses a completely different AI end-to-end approach (at least for city streets) when compared to all prior versions. So while experience with FSD use cases and other points certainly may help, some of the base assumptions have likely changed with FSD v12 and need to be challenged. In some cases, that past experience can actually serve as a roadblock to progress regarding how the new code base actually functions vs past FSD versions.

As someone who has managed personnel for over 20 years, whenever I bring in a new hire, I explicitly instruct them that I will meet with them at 30, 60, and 90 days, and my goal is to capture their fresh outside perspectives on what's working and what's not working. Too often, institutional knowledge from long time employees actually serves to prevent forward progress, so I encourage net new employees with a fresh outside perspective to be as open and honest as is possible - to challenge narratives and processes inbred into the company culture over time by those with the most institutional knowledge/past experience. It's a balancing act in other words - and I think this same concept applies at least to some extent when it comes to getting new and fresh perspectives on the new FSD v12 version.

I think you’re wrong a tad here. The “old guard” is comparing v12 to previous WTF. You’re comparing it to how you’d drive. So with that in mind, it does matter when you’re making comparisons.

But I just golf. I’m not smart like the other old guard

 

[aronth5]

The only constant is change so new members are great!

 

[Matias]

To be pedantic you’re responsible for monitoring that a wheel is about to fall off or the car is on fire.

 

[Tronguy]

Love pidgin in Hawaii. Never heard it spoken anywhere else. Now I have to go to Papua

Back on Netnews, on a forum that handled various versions of Abuse, some fellow from Papua New Guinea showed up and rattled along in pidgin, confusing the heck out of the regulars. It sorta looked like English, but was indecipherable pretty much to native English speakers.

Then another regular chimed in using the same lingo, astounding the rest of us, and apparently answered the fellow's questions. We were all going, "What Was That??!!??"

Turns out that after WWII, Australians with large farms needed field hands and sent recruiters over to PNG. The pay was good by PNG's standards, so a large number of PNG nationals (or whatever they were at the time) came over, got paid well, and eventually went on back.

Thing is, none of the PNG types spoke any English, so a pidgin sprung up that had a lot of repetition and rough English syntax in it, as well as some root words associated with the many PNG languages.

And that, "many". It turns out that PNG has been settled for a very, very long time, thousands of years. In fact, it's one of the places on Earth that agriculture was independently invented.. If memory serves, PNG peoples were farming before the people in what eventually became China were.

The next bit is that PNG's terrain is extremely rugged. Given the amount of time that the place has been settled, two typically adjacent valleys in the interior didn't really have any communications or commerce with each other, so the cultures and languages diverged over time so far that the languages were absolutely disparate; further apart than, say, Latin and, I dunno, Celtic or something. (Any PNG types who want to chime in here, please do.)

In any case, come the day, PNG became an independent country. At the country assembly, there were lots of languages, way more than ten or so, and nobody really spoke each others languages.

But, it turns out, pretty much everybody knew Tok Pisin.. so that's the official language of PNG.

At one time there was a web site over there that would take a Tok Pisin phrase and translate it to English and vice versa.

 

[FSDtester#1]

I'm on 2024.3.25 FSD 12.3.6 and I have Netflix - we just used it over the weekend in our 2023 MY LR while waiting in a parking lot for a concert venue to start letting folks in. So I'm in the early adopter FSD branch basically. Are you saying you don't have Netflix on the 2024.3.x branch? I'm not a Spotify user so I cannot comment on that particular item.

Sorry Friend, That was me being sarcastic about how far back we are usually on the FSD branch versus the main.
I do have Netflix and Spotify... It was just a joke!

 

[HitchHiker71]

Sorry Friend, That was me being sarcastic about how far back we are usually on the FSD branch versus the main.
I do have Netflix and Spotify... It was just a joke!

Ah - that makes more sense! That's why we have emoticons as well!

 

[HitchHiker71]

I think you’re wrong a tad here. The “old guard” is comparing v12 to previous WTF. You’re comparing it to how you’d drive. So with that in mind, it does matter when you’re making comparisons.

But I just golf. I’m not smart like the other old guard

I have used prior FSD versions as well - 11.x all the way up to 11.4.9 for quite a number of FSD miles last year, so I am comparing it against both the prior version and against the human driving element, at least for my part. That wasn't my point really - my point is - fresh perspective is very valuable - and not to be discouraged especially given FSD v12 was a complete end-to-end rewrite from the ground up - going from over 300k lines of code dedicated to driving instruction down to 3k code lines - all dedicated only to the AI learning engine itself - with no code for driving instructions. That's what Tesla claims at least.

 

[enemji]

Just curious why you don't use voice messaging so you're not holding your phone?

Many times it has misheard and sent out messages that made me cry

 

[EVNow]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1790627471844622435

5x-10x miles per intervention improvement from 12.3 to 12.4 with a similar "major" improvement going to 12.5? I wonder what the improvement was from 11.x to 12.x so far although that's a bit mixed with 11.x having a lot more highway miles and 12.5 theoretically restoring that functionality (as well as adding Cybertruck) starting in 6 weeks / 3 more 2-week development cycles.

Very interesting. Obviously Tesla tracks MPI - but never publishes it. Now he claims 5x to 10x improvement - but without actually publishing the data, who knows ?!

Anyway - if true - we should see an impact in the crowd sourced FSD Tracker. From 20 MPI to 100 MPI ?

ps : He says intervention - not disengagement. So, the current MPI is probably around 5.

 

[winfield100]

Just finished a 2,500+ mile trip
east coast US from SW Florida to Washington DC area back to Richmond, Virginia back to Maryland, back to SW Florida.

Did the Springfield Virginia "Mixing bowl" ok except wanted to get out of right lane
Best part was Florence, South Carolina, leaving Buc'ees supecharger when it started raining and rained for the next 500 or so miles, light rain to very heavy rain
FSD(Supervised 12.3.6 probably saved me from scrapes as there were at least 2 bad wrecks where other vehicles left the road

I'm overall happy with it _EXCEPT_ I'm losing skills I have learned over 1,5 million miles driving, but it's better than I am

 

[aronth5]

There’s no incentive for it.

AP/NOA transitioning to v11 first is more likely.

That keeps the Tesla FSD mileage curve looking good.

While v12 may ultimately be better on the highway, Tesla will need those miles from v11 FSD before v12 is validated sufficiently.

Seems likely, but as I said, just no incentive.

Obviously going to take a year or so before they're ready for that and they'll need the valuable FSD miles for their graphs well before that. Best possible function is not the priority!!!

Nice to see Elon's message that the separate highway stack will be going away fairly soon.
One has to assume they will focuse on fine tuning as they approach 8/8 so need to get rid of the big things.

 

[EVNow]

Best part was Florence, South Carolina, leaving Buc'ees supecharger when it started raining and rained for the next 500 or so miles, light rain to very heavy rain
FSD(Supervised 12.3.6 probably saved me from scrapes as there were at least 2 bad wrecks where other vehicles left the road

I'm overall happy with it _EXCEPT_ I'm losing skills I have learned over 1,5 million miles driving, but it's better than I am

The worst thing is to take a rental car at night from the airport and have to drive to the hotel on unfamiliar roads - and its raining badly - and the wiper barely clears the windscreen (and ofcourse no RainX).

Really made me want FSD ....

 

[LSDTester#1]

Ah - that makes more sense! That's why we have emoticons as well!

@FSDtester#1 doesn’t like to connect the dots. He just assumes everyone is as smart as he is

 

[LSDTester#1]

Just finished a 2,500+ mile trip
east coast US from SW Florida to Washington DC area back to Richmond, Virginia back to Maryland, back to SW Florida.

Did the Springfield Virginia "Mixing bowl" ok except wanted to get out of right lane
Best part was Florence, South Carolina, leaving Buc'ees supecharger when it started raining and rained for the next 500 or so miles, light rain to very heavy rain
FSD(Supervised 12.3.6 probably saved me from scrapes as there were at least 2 bad wrecks where other vehicles left the road

I'm overall happy with it _EXCEPT_ I'm losing skills I have learned over 1,5 million miles driving, but it's better than I am

Did you pick up any chocolate mushroom bars while you were in DC?

 

[LSDTester#1]

The worst thing is to take a rental car at night from the airport and have to drive to the hotel on unfamiliar roads - and its raining badly - and the wiper barely clears the windscreen (and ofcourse no RainX).

Really made me want FSD ....

Worst thing about a rental car after years of not driving an ICE car is getting out of it and it takes off on you, while you’re scrambling to jump back in and stop it.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Nice to see Elon's message that the separate highway stack will be going away fairly soon.
One has to assume they will focuse on fine tuning as they approach 8/8 so need to get rid of the big things.

Yep. They’ll likely be forced to do the NOA transition before then though.

Just seems unlikely that this will be ready enough for a wide FSD fleet release before v11 is ready for a fleet release.

The incentive will just be too strong. Of course concurrent limited release could still occur and still meet the mileage requirement.

 

[maddogs]

Worst thing about a rental car after years of not driving an ICE car is getting out of it and it takes off on you, while you’re scrambling to jump back in and stop it.

And how out of control it feels to have to use the breaks! I have also walked away with the engine running on a rental more than once!