FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[kabin]

I am hoping we will see more improvement in the FSD route & lane planning to be more human like. It seems as though it needs to learn common sense.

Edit - common sense is not consistent across humans so I realize the difficulty of the ask but simple cases like above should be tackled sooner than later as its a matter of safety at the end of the day.

Yep, in many ways.

As an example FSD needs to be able to distinguish between lane changes in heavy and light traffic. Needlessly cutting off cars in adjacent lanes isn't human-like or courteous and can result in road rage. It seems like a no-brainer but all these little things need to be acknowledged, prioritized, trained, and I doubt the team gets there anytime soon.

 

[OldManCan]

Totally agreed. my FSD has been giv

I'll just say that most of that is not FSD problems, that is navigation system issues. (The exception is getting the speed limit wrong, which it should be able to read the signs correctly.)

respectfully disagree. The example shared earlier, FSD preferring to make dangerous UPL rather than going a little further to the next set of traffic lights and turn in a safer environment should not be a navigation call. Navigation system will demand the shortest possible route but human gets to choose what is safer. FSD needs to be able to override nav and go for the safety over .4 miles shorter route decision.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Chuck's getting v12.4.2 right now, but unfortunately he won't be able to make videos for a couple weeks:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1807748907797000595

Hmm - a bit cryptic.
Maybe he's tied up with Starliner at the moment?
(Chuck's ULT = Unscheduled Leak Testing ??)

 

[tivoboy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1807640907799486874

Whatever happened to 10x? Or even 5x?

 

[FSDtester#1]

Whatever happened to 10x? Or even 5x?

We haven't driven it yet, so the jury is out. I do suspect this release will go wide much quicker then before due to the long wait.
Probably more people like @SSDTester#1 will get it this afternoon or evening, then the rest of us in the next 2 days.

 

[willow_hiller]

Whatever happened to 10x? Or even 5x?

It's minor tweaks and general refinements over v12.4 and v12.4.1. Overall, the v12.4 branch was meant to have a 5-10x reduction in interventions over the v12.3 branch. I don't think we have enough data on how v12.4 performs to confirm or refute that hypothesis. We'll get a rough sense from the community FSD tracker once it's released to the general public.

 

[FSDtester#1]

A first review from last night:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1807664691554181148

 

[Yelobird]

Totally agreed. my FSD has been giv


respectfully disagree. The example shared earlier, FSD preferring to make dangerous UPL rather than going a little further to the next set of traffic lights and turn in a safer environment should not be a navigation call. Navigation system will demand the shortest possible route but human gets to choose what is safer. FSD needs to be able to override nav and go for the safety over .4 miles shorter route decision.

Actually in that post the first complaint was it chose to go an extra mile alternate route then he complained it didn’t go alternate longer route to a light. This type of map data will improve but Sometimes we have to let it take that alternate as it may be trying to take the safest option.

 

[Twiglett]

They’ve messed up maps again. Now I can’t use FSD in the few cases where it did work, sort of. Speed limits wrong, routes wrong.

without version numbers its impossible to provide meaningful comment

 

[sleepydoc]

On a trip from Palm Bay to Cape Coral instead of turning on Fl70 from I95, it wanted to go 2 miles further, take a two lane road that eventually connected to 70. Would have added miles and time to the trip. Then it saw 30 miles of 70 as 55 not 65, which is the limit. In Okeechobee it wanted to do two unprotected left turns in heavy traffic rather than go one block to a stoplight with two turn lanes. Is that enough?

Driving home from the airport Saturday the routing had me taking an earlier exit and a bunch of side roads. Thinking I knew better I overrode it and stayed on the freeway only to find out my normal exit had been closed for construction...

 

[sleepydoc]

Yep, in many ways.

As an example FSD needs to be able to distinguish between lane changes in heavy and light traffic. Needlessly cutting off cars in adjacent lanes isn't human-like or courteous and can result in road rage. It seems like a no-brainer but all these little things need to be acknowledged, prioritized, trained, and I doubt the team gets there anytime soon.

but can FSD initiate rode rage when someone else cuts it off?

 

[sleepydoc]

Totally agreed. my FSD has been giv


respectfully disagree. The example shared earlier, FSD preferring to make dangerous UPL rather than going a little further to the next set of traffic lights and turn in a safer environment should not be a navigation call. Navigation system will demand the shortest possible route but human gets to choose what is safer. FSD needs to be able to override nav and go for the safety over .4 miles shorter route decision.

Was FSD following the route given to it? If so it was a navigation problem, not an FSD problem.

 

[aronth5]

A pretty simple drive so hard to evaluate but nevertheless he said v12.4.2 was an improvement. Compared to his v12.4.1 drive I'd have to agree.

 

[DBeckwith]

but can FSD initiate rode rage when someone else cuts it off?

I agree most road rage involves both parties. Easiest way to avoid road rage is avoid eye contact and ignore opposing action. Unfortunately we feel we have to punish or teach the other driver which then escalates.

FSD will not escalate, but occupants could react and escalate.

 

[MP3Mike]

respectfully disagree. The example shared earlier, FSD preferring to make dangerous UPL rather than going a little further to the next set of traffic lights and turn in a safer environment should not be a navigation call. Navigation system will demand the shortest possible route but human gets to choose what is safer. FSD needs to be able to override nav and go for the safety over .4 miles shorter route decision.

No, it is still a navigation issue. If you don't like the path the navigation system selects, you can, if offered, choose an alternate, use waypoints, or disengage and force it to take a different path. Maybe the navigation system needs an option to use a "safer" route. (Just like it has options to avoid ferries, not use HOV, and is supposed to be getting an option to avoid highways.)

 

[stopcrazypp]

Yep, in many ways.

As an example FSD needs to be able to distinguish between lane changes in heavy and light traffic. Needlessly cutting off cars in adjacent lanes isn't human-like or courteous and can result in road rage. It seems like a no-brainer but all these little things need to be acknowledged, prioritized, trained, and I doubt the team gets there anytime soon.

The car still needs to have the ability to do last minute lane changes safely. I think that is the logic Tesla is using.

I have long argued for a "macro" planner that plans the lane changes for the entire route prior to even setting off, which would avoid last minute changes.

Currently, FSD doesn't appear to have that. It just uses the regular nav and wings it as it reaches various turns, which results in lots of last minute changes or unnecessary changes.

 

[tivoboy]

We haven't driven it yet, so the jury is out. I do suspect this release will go wide much quicker then before due to the long wait.
Probably more people like @SSDTester#1 will get it this afternoon or evening, then the rest of us in the next 2 days.

We do often get a wider release around a holiday..

 

[Dennisis]

Driving home from the airport Saturday the routing had me taking an earlier exit and a bunch of side roads. Thinking I knew better I overrode it and stayed on the freeway only to find out my normal exit had been closed for construction...

Driving to Glenwood Springs, CO a couple of years ago had a similar experience. Our normal exit off I70 was a few miles up the road but Nav had us take an earlier exit - I grudgingly obeyed. As soon as we did we saw I70 was now a parking lot and we breezed by all on the frontage road, saved at least an hour and I learned to trust the Nav more...

 

[kabin]

but can FSD initiate rode rage when someone else cuts it off?

Maybe a future option upgrade?

 

[kabin]