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Future Charging for Model S 1-phase or 3-phase ?

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#61
Whats so expensive about DC other than the power requriements? The advantage of DC charging is that it takes the inverter (AC to DC) out of the car, and puts it into the charge equipment. The best rate for AC is about 75 amps. The best rate for DC is 300 or more amps, decreasing the charge time. You may know better than me but I believe that the size (and weight) for the inverter in the car for that charge rate of 300 amps AC would be huge. Putting it into a car, then would be detrimental to weight, economy and performance!
 
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#62
Surely there still has to be some kind of regulation of the power going to the cells. That still might require DC-to-DC converters because linear regulators are so inefficient (and get hot). Or the car would have to command the charger what voltage to supply...?
 
#63
I firmly believe the reason that these standards take so long to finalize is because there are other interests fighting them and making them take as long as possible.
Its just a goddamn plug, its not rocket surgery.
 
#65
richkae said:
I firmly believe the reason that these standards take so long to finalize is because there are other interests fighting them and making them take as long as possible.
Its just a goddamn plug, its not rocket surgery.
Click to expand...

This sort of problem exists on every standards committee ever formed. Each participating manufacturer wants the standard to conform as closely as possible to their proprietary technology, so they don't have to change anything, or at least very much, once the standard is issued.

Sometimes there are patent issues... e.g. group A wants the standard to use their patent, and group B wants it to use theirs, or none at all.

Sometimes all these shenanigans result in "standards" that allow several different ways of doing the same thing. Eventually either one version of the standard comes to dominate, or everyone has to implement all possible "modes", which benefits no one.

In short, conspiracy theories are not necessary where unenlightened self-interest will do the job.
 
#69
doug said:
haha... I love this! ^^...!
Click to expand...
RocketSurgeryCover175w.jpg


Two books. Both pretty good. Website design and "Home" usability testing.

Advanced Common Sense Home
 
#71
50 kW charging is on the limit for onboard chargers, at least according to the head of Renault's EV programme. They are working hard to get it into next year's cars. Higher than that definitely requires offboard, and we know from advertised charge times that Model S will need more. But that is not to say that where a three phase supply is available the car shouldn't be able to use it.

It's already bad enough that the Leaf can charge 3x faster than a Roadster. Imagine turning up in a Model S to charge for hours only to see a £15000 Renault Zoe able to use the same socket to recharge in 30 minutes.

At the moment, nothing is certain.
 
#72
I should be clear. Here are the things I think we mostly agree on that don't have to be rehashed:


  • No one (except perhaps the Tesla parts department) wants a proprietary Tesla connector.
  • Yazaki J1772 is the de facto and official (!!) standard in the US (even though some, including myself, would have preferred Mennekes IEC 62196-2 "Type 2").
  • The Model S needs to have a J1772 port in the US (and Japan).
  • The Model S really really should support 3 phase charging in Europe (most likely this means Mennekes).
 
#73
In the UK at least I see the following being desirable (timings based on 300 mile car):

1) Overnight charging in your garage being either 63A single phase or 16A three phase where three phase available.

2) Widespread charging at commercial premises such as restaurants and hotels using cheap 32A or 63A three phase sockets to get up to 44kW for recharge in as little as a couple of hours.

3) Off-board DC for rapid charging at motorway service stops, at up to 100kW or whatever the eventual new standard allows, for sub one hour charging.


The anomaly is CHAdeMO, which has been making inroads into the UK and should be supported as at least an option here (I guess in Japan too). Being only 50kW it's a very expensive system to get a 2 hour charge time and I'd prefer that the authorities take stock before throwing any more cash at it. Tesla needs to speak up if they want higher charging powers in the future, or the pot will be empty.
 
#74
as bigger the battery pack as less the need for fast charging because you can do slow charge through the night. But even then i consider slow charge is 32A 3-phase with 22kW power, allowing to charge a deep depleted Models S battery pack with 90kWh within 4h time using the low night price. Therefore i agree with dpeilow, but i seen no real need for DC except for comfort reason.
 
#78
Eberhard said:
that what i call comfort, without real need. or how i call it: nice to have
Click to expand...

Fast charging is a must for me. I have a 350 mile round trip to my cabin and no possibility of charging there (except by a 5kW generator, best avoided). Thus I must charge on my way back home. 30-40 minutes on a fast DC charger (125A=>~60kW) while I eat will take care of my charging needs.
 
#79
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