General Discussion: 2018 Investor Roundtable

[jeewee3000]

Tesla hires Audi’s Senior Director of Production to build the Model 3 program

It works both ways indeed. But I still wonder how this is dealt with legally.

A competition clause does not mean you cannot work in the same industry for a given period, just that you cannot divulge the trade secrets of the company you are leaving. I guess it is nearly impossible to check for these things.

 

[30seconds]

Non-compete clauses are generally not enforceable or legal in California. I would suspect he has no such clause in his Tesla employment agreement.

IP and trade secret theft is still very enforced however

 

[Yggdrasill]

Non-compete clauses in Norway are only legal as long as the employee is kept on the payroll for the duration of the exclusion period. (Not that it's particularly relevant for this specific situation, but it does show that Europe also has different rules.)

 

[j0hn]

Model 3 VINs on Twitter

4793 new vins registered !

 

[30seconds]

So what is the closest competitor to the model 3?

The I-pace on the more expensive side and maybe the leaf or bolt going the other way?

Or just straight 3-series, c-series, A4?

Too bad all the bears have run away, they may have been able to help

 

[Yggdrasill]

So what is the closest competitor to the model 3?

The I-pace on the more expensive side and maybe the leaf or bolt going the other way?

Or just straight 3-series, c-series, A4?

This. I haven't heard plans for any all-electric competitor any time soon. But BMW has some prototypes that might turn into a competitor, some time after 2020.

 

[Reciprocity]

Did not want to start a new thread for this, but I have a question regarding this article:

Tesla loses Model S and Model X program manager to VW in order to ‘strengthen their EV position’

Are there no competition clauses in the contracts of these people, preventing them from using their knowledge gained at Tesla for a certain amount of time at another company?

According to European contractual law these clauses are valid under the condition they are constrained in time (eg. for 6 months) and place (eg. within the U.S.A.), so most contracts contain such a clause.

To me the article above reads like Volkswagen saying: "Thanks Tesla, we are going to copy you as closely as possible with inside knowledge". I must be oversimplifying this, but would like a North American legal viewpoint on this.

Yeah the only thing is that Tesla wants VW to be serious about EVs. So it really depends on what they are copying. Tesla certainly has IP it wants to protect, but the mission requires competition to contribute.

 

[avoigt]

Daimler CEO: „More EVs are good for the carbon balance but not so good for our financial results- at least temporarily .“
Daimler announced that they will keep a high pace on new models and will continue with Diesel as it’s good for the Carbon emissions. They have ambitious goals on margin and want to finance the shift in the industry towards EVs and car sharing with that profits. So far no news.

I believe we will continue to see the big guys delay the investments into EVs and try to keep their profits up. They obviously don‘t have yet an answer on how to bring EVs to the market with decent profits and don‘t dare to go there as it may kill their job. So it’s partly a selfish decision although they make it as a good one for the shareholder decision.

Ultimately they hope that their engineers find a technology solution until they can shift gears into EVs with similar profits.

It’s a very risky game they play and I am not sure if that’s a wise one. Once the negative impact on that delays will be obvious the CEO may be in retirement and others have to cope with a fully new game to play. Part of that misguidance is the underestimation of the complexity to build an EV with good specs and also an underestimation of customer behavior in a shifting industry.

Personally I believed many years back that just a few guys like me will invest in Apples products and be addicted to it and I was completely on the wrong path. Like with Apple once people are a part of that what I call the Tesla Network it’s going to be ext,reply difficult to win them back.

I am not a fan of conspiracy theories but in order to hinder EV competition to grow fast it would be unrealistic to believe that the huge money flow into puts is just the single investor. As a huge ICE corporation you have to have a strategy to reduce speed to market of competitors like Tesla. They may even believe by investing into short selling they will make money. Obviously they won‘t don’t directly.

Just think about why Daimer sold their Tesla shares a while ago.... that was not a wise investment decision too.

 

[avoigt]

This. I haven't heard plans for any all-electric competitor any time soon. But BMW has some prototypes that might turn into a competitor, some time after 2020.

BMW announced a few days ago that the i3 and the i8 are not designed to be a car family therefore they consider to stop development and build a new approach which starts with the i4. That is scheduled for 2021.

Their investment in light material for the i3 and i8 was driven by the thought that you can compete with a medium Battery if the car is light enough. Engineers made not their homework at that time as they did not have experience about regen.

Looking at that the i3 did not get a decent update and sales is falling from the cliff in the US it sounds reasonable.

The thing is I don‘t see a competitor of the M3. What I do see are other EVs that penetrate other market segments like the i-Pace, Leaf or Bold but no competitor that makes someone think twice.

 

[Words of HABIT]

China has major problems with smog/pollution in their cities. They should help themselves by eliminating all tariff's on EVs. This will also help the planet and expedite the World's transition of ICE autos to EVs.

 

[Reciprocity]

Model 3 VINs on Twitter

4793 new vins registered !

Crazy. So over 25000 total VINs and more than 4000 a week for the past 2+ weeks. I think we need to really keep a close on deliveries and VIN assignments because this points to more then 2020/w and we could be seeing them comment at earnings time about a rate closer to 3000+/w. This would bode well for 5000/w though I expect a major slow down in improvements as they approach 4000+ based on the fact the the system is basically designed to max out there without any new additions to the line.

 

[Reciprocity]

BMW announced a few days ago that the i3 and the i8 are not designed to be a car family therefore they consider to stop development and build a new approach which starts with the i4. That is scheduled for 2021.

Their investment in light material for the i3 and i8 was driven by the thought that you can compete with a medium Battery if the car is light enough. Engineers made not their homework at that time as they did not have experience about regen.

Looking at that the i3 did not get a decent update and sales is falling from the cliff in the US it sounds reasonable.

The thing is I don‘t see a competitor of the M3. What I do see are other EVs that penetrate other market segments like the i-Pace, Leaf or Bold but no competitor that makes someone think twice.

Wait, BMW is not going to release 20 new models (all Tesla killers and so luxurious) in the magical year of 2020? Are you sure? The year is indeed magical you know. I think someone misread the memo.

 

[HG Wells]

Wait, BMW is not going to release 20 new models (all Tesla killers and so luxurious) in the magical year of 2020? Are you sure? The year is indeed magical you know. I think someone misread the memo.

BUT BUT 2020 is magical !
It's the same number as how many model 3's were made by Tesla in the last week of Q1 !

AND AND my numerologist says 2020 is the high Tesla stock will hit in 2020 ! /S

 

[Starno]

4793 NEW VINS registered

Tesla registered 4,793 new Model3 VINs. Highest VIN is 25374. • r/teslamotors

 

[brian45011]

According to European contractual law these clauses are valid under the condition they are constrained in time (eg. for 6 months) and place (eg. within the U.S.A.), so most contracts contain such a clause.

Black letter US law in most jurisdictions is similar with the additional requirement that the restrictions be reasonable in scope. Since restrictions on an individual's ability to earn a living in his profession are not favored, the presumptions tend to support the former employee.
As others have noted, theft of Intellectual Property is a different matter.

 

[Starno]

Crazy. So over 25000 total VINs and more than 4000 a week for the past 2+ weeks. I think we need to really keep a close on deliveries and VIN assignments because this points to more then 2020/w and we could be seeing them comment at earnings time about a rate closer to 3000+/w. This would bode well for 5000/w though I expect a major slow down in improvements as they approach 4000+ based on the fact the the system is basically designed to max out there without any new additions to the line.

Maybe they expect Grohmann line to start to be operational soon ?

 

[ZsoZso]

All eyes are focused on reaching the 5K/week production speed -- which is important for cash flow and margin. However, I see a much bigger issue with the overall model 3 production ramp plans.

The problem I see is that the end-goal seems to be 10k/week, and I do not think that is going to cut it! When the first half million reserved model 3 is on the roads visible to everyone and new ones can be ordered with a reasonable wait time (3-4 months), then demand will be more than BMW 3-series + Audi A4/S4 + Mercedes C-class added together world-wide.

Tesla will need to ramp production far higher than half a million cars per year to satisfy that. Can they put 2 more M3 lines into Fremont (in addition to the 2 planned initially) ? Can the Gigafactory (once fully built out) output enough battery packs for a million M3 per year ? If not, where are they going to build the extra capacity ?

 

[Krugerrand]

It works both ways indeed. But I still wonder how this is dealt with legally.

A competition clause does not mean you cannot work in the same industry for a given period, just that you cannot divulge the trade secrets of the company you are leaving. I guess it is nearly impossible to check for these things.

Who says he left of his own accord? Do you sign such a contract if they walk you out the door? I don’t know, never been that valuable or possessed anything of important secrecy except Grandma’s secret recipe for icicle pickles.

And he’s ‘honored?’ To join VW?! Traitor to mankind.

 

[kbM3]

Just think about why Daimer sold their Tesla shares a while ago.... that was not a wise investment decision too.

Actually the unwise decision was bailing Tesla out that long ago I'm sure in retrospect they're sorry.

 

[Jonathan Hewitt]