General Discussion: 2018 Investor Roundtable

[avoigt]

Thats smart:

A dutch energy utility called Tennet gives 100 Tesla drivers a fee for the right to decide outside of reserved hours to load the battery faster or slower due to grid optimization needs. The objective is to stabilize the grid in hours of low green energy production.

If a lot of green energy is available your car will charge faster if supply is low it will be slower. By doing that you utilize the combined amount of batteries in the EVs like a buffer to reduce so far required (carbon) power plant support in shortages.

Netzbetreiber Tennet macht Teslas zu Strompuffern | bizz-energy.com (in German)

The TCO advantage for EVs as well as utilities enters in a new level.

Also compare to what the Australian Tesla Battery saved lately: Tesla's Australian battery shows it can also make huge profits

Thats the same concept.

 

[Reciprocity]

Thats smart:

A dutch energy utility called Tennet gives 100 Tesla drivers a fee for the right to decide outside of reserved hours to load the battery faster or slower due to grid optimization needs. The objective is to stabilize the grid in hours of low green energy production.

If a lot of green energy is available your car will charge faster if supply is low it will be slower. By doing that you utilize the combined amount of batteries in the EVs like a buffer to reduce so far required (carbon) power plant support in shortages.

Netzbetreiber Tennet macht Teslas zu Strompuffern | bizz-energy.com (in German)

The TCO advantage for EVs as well as utilities enters in a new level.

Also compare to what the Australian Tesla Battery saved lately: Tesla's Australian battery shows it can also make huge profits

Thats the same concept.

With cars parked 23 hours a day in many cases, V2G and smart optimized charging controlled and on demand makes a lot of sense. My cars could run my home for a week or more, not that that is a good idea but in a disaster scenario it would be a nice option. That huge Australian battery is 128MWh which is only 1280 model S/X 100s. Which is less then one weeks production. With a simple software update, Tesla could enable charging on demand for utilities, with permission from the owners of course. In exchange, owners could get cheaper rates, extend warranties. The opposite could also happen, but I wonder if the hardware would need to change?

 

[mongo]

Hmm, I understand that the Radar usually can look under a pickup and see any obstacles in front of the car and in some cases even up to several cars ahead? This does not add up.

AP/ TACC warns that it doesn't detected stopped vehicles. So not being able to see a stopped object in front of the vehicle it is following makes perfect sense to me, and is covered in the warnings.

From Model S Owner's Manual (emphasis mine)

Warning: Traffic-Aware Cruise Control cannot detect all objects and may not brake/decelerate for stationary vehicles, especially in situations when you are driving over 50 mph (80 km/h) and a vehicle you are following moves out of your driving path and a stationary vehicle or object is in front of you instead. Always pay attention to the road ahead and stay prepared to take immediate corrective action. Depending on Traffic-Aware Cruise Control to avoid a collision can result in serious injury or death.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

I don't remember the thread where the call went out from a friend of a Tesla fan with stage 4 cancer for aid in getting the guy a quick meeting with JB or Franz, but it happened. Way to go, Tesla!

If any of you recall the thread, please post the link there so others can see the resolution.

A Tesla Owner with Cancer's Dying Dream

 

[schonelucht]

A dutch energy utility called Tennet gives 100 Tesla drivers a fee for the right to decide outside of reserved hours to load the battery faster or slower due to grid optimization needs. The objective is to stabilize the grid in hours of low green energy production.

Unfortunately, it means literally giving the digital keys to your car to the company. Tesla could do better here by providing an API that gives energy providers just the control and feedback they need to be able to implement on demand charging. (Note, this is NOT vehicle to grid, it's strictly grid to vehicle but on demand of the grid instead of the car) without having full access to the car. As it is now, the customer needs to put a high level of trust in their grid operator.

 

[mongo]

Unfortunately, it means literally giving the digital keys to your car to the company. Tesla could do better here by providing an API that gives energy providers just the control and feedback they need to be able to implement on demand charging. (Note, this is NOT vehicle to grid, it's strictly grid to vehicle but on demand of the grid instead of the car) without having full access to the car. As it is now, the customer needs to put a high level of trust in their grid operator.

Not sure what their approach is, but it could be implement in the EV connector hardware via the signal that limits the max current the car can pull. Similar to the cut outs for water heater and AC units. There is a 50+ spot parking structure charger system in CA uses a similar approach.

 

[Words of HABIT]

Are you implying that Canada will impose a similar tariff on solar products imported from the United States?

No. My err. Solar roof reservation still intact. Carry on.

 

[JRP3]

Model 3 VIN 6396 assigned Highest production VIN in the wild

 

[ggr]

Hmm, I understand that the Radar usually can look under a pickup and see any obstacles in front of the car and in some cases even up to several cars ahead? This does not add up.

Yes, it adds up. The entire system is programmed to ignore stationary objects, to avoid false positives from signs and parked cars and so on. The radar might easily have detected the fire truck and ignored it. The other examples we've seen were all vehicles that had been moving before.

 

[RiverCard]

The driver of the Tesla is my dad's friend. He said that he was behind a pickup truck with AP engaged. The pickup truck suddenly swerved into the right lane because of the firetruck parked ahead. Because the pickup truck was too high to see over, he didn't have enough time to react. He hit the firetruck at 65mph and the steering column was pushed 2 feet inwards toward him. Luckily, he wasn't hurt. He fully acknowledges that he should've been paying more attention and isn't blaming Tesla. The whole thing was pretty unfortunate considering he bought the car fairly recently (blacked it out too).
Tesla allegedly on Autopilot hits firetruck with 65mph • r/teslamotors

Sounds to me like he was way too close to the pickup truck at that speed. If AP was engaged is still to be proven as it normally should have reacted.

We heard from a lot of drivers blaming AP at start and later it was proven to not be the case. We'll see.

A similar incident involving a vehicle in front swerving to avoid a slow moving obstruction.

Mod: enough discussion of the accident please. At least unless new information surfaces. --ggr.

 

[schonelucht]

Not sure what their approach is, but it could be implement in the EV connector hardware via the signal that limits the max current the car can pull. Similar to the cut outs for water heater and AC units. There is a 50+ spot parking structure charger system in CA uses a similar approach.

Yes, that could work but you'd need to control the charging hardware. There is too much variation and most are anyway not able to receive instructions from the grid to make that a practical solution. Having people install a specific charger would present too much of a hurdle. So they log in the car through the regular API. But that means literally giving them the keys and trusting they don't do anything weird.

 

[Waiting4M3]

With cars parked 23 hours a day in many cases, V2G and smart optimized charging controlled and on demand makes a lot of sense. My cars could run my home for a week or more, not that that is a good idea but in a disaster scenario it would be a nice option. That huge Australian battery is 128MWh which is only 1280 model S/X 100s. Which is less then one weeks production. With a simple software update, Tesla could enable charging on demand for utilities, with permission from the owners of course. In exchange, owners could get cheaper rates, extend warranties. The opposite could also happen, but I wonder if the hardware would need to change?

Almost for sure the HW will need changes. Grid is AC. The charger converts AC to DC by using a rectifier. Going the other way from DC to AC you need an inverter. They are completely different circuits. It seems unlikely that Tesla would have an inverter built into their chargers (or wall unit) just to be future proof.

 

[dc_h]

Interesting S delivery thread. Seems like new cars are talking 2-3 months, even in California.

 

[mongo]

Yes, that could work but you'd need to control the charging hardware. There is too much variation and most are anyway not able to receive instructions from the grid to make that a practical solution. Having people install a specific charger would present too much of a hurdle. So they log in the car through the regular API. But that means literally giving them the keys and trusting they don't do anything weird.

AC charging is standardized, see this install. All networked.

 

[schonelucht]

AC charging is standardized, see this install. All networked.

I don't understand?

 

[RiverCard]

They decreased their holdings of Tesla compared to Feb 2017 by a few 100k in shares. I think they have to regularly update SEC when above 5%.

Ballie Gifford reduced its position in TSLA by 193,750 share (~1.5%) in 4Q17 and by 327,934 shares (~2.4%) in 3Q17.

5+% holders must up-date their positions within 6 weeks of year-end (mid-Feb). The interesting SC 13G/A will be Tencent's.

 

[mongo]

I don't understand?

Yeah, that was sort of brief, wasn't it.

There is too much variation and most are anyway not able to receive instructions from the grid to make that a practical solution. Having people install a specific charger would present too much of a hurdle.

For the US, J1772 is standardized and the pilot signal lets the car know what the maximum draw is. If the power company is behind the system, they could provide the web-connected HW and installation for the system. Theoretically, it could also be done via a J1772 inline adapter that modifies the pilot signal. For the Tesla HPWC, the pairing system might be able to be adapted to provide this functionality.

So yeah, it would need specific HW, but that HW could be the same for all vehicle makes, and is not an overly difficult obstacle in the road to cost savings on charging, especially for new installs.

 

[hobbes]

The driver of the Tesla is my dad's friend. He said that he was behind a pickup truck with AP engaged. The pickup truck suddenly swerved into the right lane because of the firetruck parked ahead. Because the pickup truck was too high to see over, he didn't have enough time to react. He hit the firetruck at 65mph and the steering column was pushed 2 feet inwards toward him. Luckily, he wasn't hurt. He fully acknowledges that he should've been paying more attention and isn't blaming Tesla. The whole thing was pretty unfortunate considering he bought the car fairly recently (blacked it out too).
Tesla allegedly on Autopilot hits firetruck with 65mph • r/teslamotors

Sounds to me like he was way too close to the pickup truck at that speed. If AP was engaged is still to be proven as it normally should have reacted.

We heard from a lot of drivers blaming AP at start and later it was proven to not be the case. We'll see.

I think this (someone driving in front of you and swerving away to leave a stationary obstacle in your path) has been a weak spot of Auto Pilot for a long time. I was looking for a video I remember and found another similar one:

EDIT: @RiverCard beat me to it

 

[immunogold]

Ballie Gifford reduced its position in TSLA by 193,750 share (~1.5%) in 4Q17 and by 327,934 shares (~2.4%) in 3Q17.

5+% holders must up-date their positions within 6 weeks of year-end (mid-Feb). The interesting SC 13G/A will be Tencent's.

I am not sophisticated in interpreting this downsizing. Is it meaningful at all? Could someone help put this pull-back in perpective for me? What is the potential significance? Could it be due to internal issues at Ballie Gifford (unrelated to Tesla execution), or could this be construed as reflecting their impression of SP in coming months? Are you waiting to see if Tencent makes a move before drawing conclusions? Has Barron held relatively steady?

 

[immunogold]

“News alert: Just had an interesting conversation with @sundeep over at Autonomic. @Ford is acquiring Autonomic, along with another startup (TransLoc). And is realigning its Ford Mobility business. Story on its way.”

I just saw this Tweet; attribution didn’t carry over. It was from @KirstenKorosec