General Discussion: 2018 Investor Roundtable

[dmckinstry]

This is a damned shame: You You crashes while using autopilot.

I don't understand. If the car veered right, why is the left side damaged?

 

[TSLA_Hopeful]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=940152862822850

This is a video of youyou driving and turning the lights off at night.... combined with driving in EU before it is ready and with no internet connection this was an accident of his own doing and waiting to happen

Can someone archive this video and report it to Fred from Electrek? He should update the article with this. Sorry I would do it myself but I’m not a tech expert.

 

[Waiting4M3]

I don't understand. If the car veered right, why is the left side damaged?

Looks like an exit ramp, and the car veered into the exit lane, and hitting the divider to the left of the car. See this photo from Electrek's article. I think the left side of the car hit the right side of the divider. You You is lucky that he didn't run into the thing head on.

 

[jigar]

Can someone archive this video and report it to Fred from Electrek? He should update the article with this. Sorry I would do it myself but I’m not a tech expert.

Archiving video of You You Xue abusing autopilot by driving at highway speeds and intentionally turning headlights off.
i.e driving blind on highway

You You Xue abusing autopilot, driving with lights off at highway speeds

Created backup of video, in case original video gets deleted mysteriously

 

[sundaymorning]

I don't understand. If the car veered right, why is the left side damaged?

Looks like an exit ramp, and the car veered into the exit lane, and hitting the divider to the left of the car. See this photo from Electrek's article. I think the left side of the car hit the right side of the divider. You You is lucky that he didn't run into the thing head on.

Could it be they drive on the opposite side in eastern Europe?

 

[Waiting4M3]

Could it be they drive on the opposite side in eastern Europe?

I don't think so, Electrek updated the location to Greece. Before it was Macedonia, which also drives on the right side of the road, same as the US.

 

[BioSehnsucht]

My view is clear:

Confirmation bias says the "wide lane algorithm" is at fault. There is no such thing as a wide lane. The car shouldn't center, but rather offset from the driver side edge stripe until signaled otherwise.

In this case the car started centering as the "lane" widened, then it discovered a gore point. Never should've "centered/offset" past a valid lane width.


But, no Autopilot should run on. Tesla should vanquish the notion of a "wide lane." There is some hardheaded advocate of the wide lanes at Tesla that needs to change the algorithm to offset from the lane marker on the driver's side rather than center.

This isn't always a valid assumption, but perhaps map tile data could solve it, by having awareness of lane position - if you're traveling in rightmost lane, prefer left lane line. If you're traveling in left most lane, prefer right lane line. There are entrances and exits on both sides of the road in many places, for example on/off ramps on the right and HOV lane entrance/exit on the left, within the same stretch of road. If you always prefer left, and come across one of these HOV exits that briefly results in a "wide lane" to allow time / space for vehicles exiting HOV to merge with left lane of highway, then the car may aggressively cut off someone exiting the HOV.

For example : Google Maps

 

[Waiting4M3]

Someone commented on Electrek that he had previous suspension damage and had heard a clacking noise from the steering.

Yes there was a screenshot of his comment from 5/20

 

[sundaymorning]

Bonnie pointed me to this article:

Tesla fan: Autopilot glitches brought peril to road trip


“I’ll confess that I have fallen asleep on the road at least 15 to 25 times on the journey,” Xue said.

 

[Waiting4M3]

The shipment is for zone 4 of module line. Zone 3 was solved 2 weeks ago. And IIRC zone 2 was the one solved with the semi-auto method. This will complete module production ramp in all 4 zones.

 

[sundaymorning]

The shipment is for zone 4 of module line. Zone 3 was solved 2 weeks ago. And IIRC zone 2 was the one solved with the semi-auto method. This will complete module production ramp in all 4 zones.

Is Elon talking about the new equipment they received by air?

 

[Waiting4M3]

Is Elon talking about the new equipment they received by air?

Yes, @EVNewsDaily asked Elon about the 6 planes flying today, that was Elon's reply.

 

[Mich]

Interesting, if they are over 5000 without the new Grohman systems how high will they be in July?

How much "Model 3 equivalent" capacity does TE need? They also need tons of packs.

 

[hobbes]

You You´s own statement:
r/teslamotors - My statement regarding the collision on Autopilot

My left hand was grasping the bottom of the steering wheel during the drive, my right hand was resting on my lap. The vehicle showed no signs of difficulty following the road up until this fork. As the gore point began, approximately 8m before the crash barrier and end of the fork, my Model 3 veered suddenly and with great force to the right. I was taking a glance at the navigation on my phone, and was not paying full attention to the road. I was startled by the sudden change in direction of the car, and I attempted to apply additional grip onto the steering wheel in an attempt to correct the steering. This input was too late and although I was only a few inches from clearing the crash barrier, the front left of the vehicle near the wheel well crashed into the right edge of the barrier, resulting in severe damage.

This guy is really honest, don´t find that often. So my assessment as with most AP accidents: Formally, the driver is to blame as his attention was not on the road. On the other hand, after driving forever on AP and never having problems like that, people tend to relax and not be as careful any more. Humans are generally bad at taking very low probability risks into account.

Must say I am really impressed by his account, very differentiated. States both his and Tesla´s mistakes quite clearly.

Unhappy ending both for You You and Tesla, not good press. Anyway, most importantly he is safe and hopefully this leads to Tesla putting even more effort into improving AP.

 

[NicoV]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=940152862822850

This is a video of youyou driving and turning the lights off at night.... combined with driving in EU before it is ready and with no internet connection this was an accident of his own doing and waiting to happen

What! On autopilot without lights and no visible line markings, that’s crazy.
Somebody who is willing to go to a different continent with a car that is totally unsupported there probably doesn’t have safety and peace of mind on high on his priorities.

 

[RobStark]

 

[22522]

This isn't always a valid assumption, but perhaps map tile data could solve it, by having awareness of lane position - if you're traveling in rightmost lane, prefer left lane line. If you're traveling in left most lane, prefer right lane line. There are entrances and exits on both sides of the road in many places, for example on/off ramps on the right and HOV lane entrance/exit on the left, within the same stretch of road. If you always prefer left, and come across one of these HOV exits that briefly results in a "wide lane" to allow time / space for vehicles exiting HOV to merge with left lane of highway, then the car may aggressively cut off someone exiting the HOV.

For example : Google Maps

Yes, don’t make it an assumption.

The system should display a geeen dot over the one that it is using. The attentive driver can pong it over via the steering wheel well ahead of any

exit ambiguity.​

 

[avoigt]

You You´s own statement:
r/teslamotors - My statement regarding the collision on Autopilot



This guy is really honest, don´t find that often. So my assessment as with most AP accidents: Formally, the driver is to blame as his attention was not on the road. On the other hand, after driving forever on AP and never having problems like that, people tend to relax and not be as careful any more. Humans are generally bad at taking very low probability risks into account.

Must say I am really impressed by his account, very differentiated. States both his and Tesla´s mistakes quite clearly.

Unhappy ending both for You You and Tesla, not good press. Anyway, most importantly he is safe and hopefully this leads to Tesla putting even more effort into improving AP.

In the aftermath its clear now why Tesla did not support the Europe trip. Without mapping, updates and support its simply too dangerous and the likelihood that it creates negative press caused by an accident is too high.

There are a few elements that needs to be available to drive AP safely that people may not fully comprehend. As stated before users tend to believe that they understand how AP works and because of that feel like they can use it in situations and locations they assume they are in full control of. Thats the misconception thats causes accidents.

People need to understand that they will never fully understand how the system, the algorithms and the mapping works! Its a heavily complicated matter and regardless how experienced you feel you are driving that car or to what extend you educated yourself about autonomous driving.

I consider You Your comments fair and balanced but he does miss a very important point. Tesla had a good reason why he did recommend not yet to use the car in Europe.

His long conclusion reads like as if he would have had that accident in the US but he was in Europe and cannot expect that the AP acts like as it is the US. Given it was Europe you cannot work with the same assumption like AP supposed to work in the US.

Having said that you need to rely on the advise and guideline from Tesla otherwise you take a high risk using it.

 

[Runarbt]

Looks like an exit ramp, and the car veered into the exit lane, and hitting the divider to the left of the car. See this photo from Electrek's article. I think the left side of the car hit the right side of the divider. You You is lucky that he didn't run into the thing head on.

more like ap wanted to exit. YouYou got startled and tried to correct.. turned left. pr. his own reddit explanation.

He drove into the median himself trying to correct.. imho.

If he did nothing, the car could have exited correctly it seems. although at high speed.

 

[Todd Burch]

Don’t want to call YouYou a liar, but something does not add up with this story.

1. Geometrically, a hard veer to the right would make it virtually impossible to get severe damage on the left side of the car without another hard veer to the left. Think about it. You’re travelling down the left fork at 60-70 mph, the car “suddenly veers right” enough to travel to the right side of the gore point, yet the left side of the car has all the damage. For that to have happened, it had to have veered hard back left to hit the right side of the wall. No mention of this.

2. I know that AP1 (on which I have an estimated 30,000-40,000 engaged miles, about 70% highway and 30% surface streets) has a maximum amount that it will turn the wheel at a given speed. Because of this limit (which I assume AP2 has too), I think it’s even more unlikely that the described maneuver could have occurred, especially at a high rate of speed.

Sorry, not buying the story.

Edit: looking closer at the picture I see the damage on the corner of the barrier, which is possible. But at such speeds, I find it unlikely that the car veered right hard at high speeds, there was no skidding, and it just clipped that barrier. (2) still applies, and more is coming out RE the driver making some mistakes in this situation and being distraced...and now it looks like he was overcorrecting for an “apparent” excessive steering input. Will take it over to the Model 3 thread where they’re discussing this, but long story short: still doesn’t add up for me.