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Get Amped Tour: Seattle, 7/6 - 7/8
- Thread starter Francis Lau
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I second the sentiment that we need to be careful about being too harsh on dissenting views. Passionate but respectful discourse almost always leads to better results. This is not to say we all need to agree but it is always educational to hear various perspectives. Peace!
dmckinstry
Model X 2019
My point is that in one sense regen on the Model S is superior if you want to make a panic stop. That is, it's working before your foot reaches the brake. However, I'm don't see why it can't continue to work when your foot is on the brake. I would like to see it work in both cases. The Prius works with your foot on the brake, so why not the Model S as well.
Not in a manual, particularly not in a performance car, you'll slow down dramatically from engine compression.
I suspect anyone that drives a manual will find the regen completely normal feeling. It's only people that drive automatics that will think it's odd. Whenever I have to switch to an automatic these days, I feel like the car isn't working right because it doesn't slow down...
Lots of discussion about regen which nobody will find after this thread dies out.
Maybe it could be moved to its own thread please?
Maybe it could be moved to its own thread please?
dmckinstry
Model X 2019
Yeh. I've been visualizing the headlines. "Model S hijacked. Copilot taken hostage. Will be released when driver can keep car without reprisal."
dmckinstry
Model X 2019
I don't know for certain, but I did ask one of the staff at the Seattle test drive and he said he didn't think so. Perhaps I should have asked another person for confirmation.
Only some automatics.
As previously noted, this does not match my experience at all. I've only driven one automatic that behaved like that, and I hated it.
Darn I should have tested that. For those in the next round of test drives, perhaps someone will keep an eye on the gauges to see if the "green regen" indicator shows when you brake lightly.
Mycroft
Life happens
I had my 10 minute test drive this afternoon in the black perf. without pano roof.
10 minutes was far too short. I'm surprised that there were as many positive media first-drive reviews as there were with such a short drive.
There was zero "creep". On the slightest upward hill, the car will drift backwards if you take your foot off the accelerator. Not sure how that would play on steep hills. Just give it enough "gas" to keep it stopped and not use the brake? According to the representative, they are definitely studying the problem and will make adjustments in software when they have the best solution.
I meant to try out the cruise control, but was enjoying myself too much and forgot.
I didn't get the feeling of it being on "rails". But the acceleration was very similar to Roadster feel.
The ride-along rep tried out the three settings for steering. I liked Sport the best. VERY tight! The wheel was directly connected to the tires with that setting. Even standard felt squishy in comparison. (I drive an SLK 55 AMG).
The turn-by-turn was obstructed by the steering wheel, but I'm sure the wheel could be adjusted so it was comfortable to drive and didn't obstruct the console. As opposed to the Roadster, where you couldn't even see the MPH readout.
10 minutes was far too short. I'm surprised that there were as many positive media first-drive reviews as there were with such a short drive.
There was zero "creep". On the slightest upward hill, the car will drift backwards if you take your foot off the accelerator. Not sure how that would play on steep hills. Just give it enough "gas" to keep it stopped and not use the brake? According to the representative, they are definitely studying the problem and will make adjustments in software when they have the best solution.
I meant to try out the cruise control, but was enjoying myself too much and forgot.
I didn't get the feeling of it being on "rails". But the acceleration was very similar to Roadster feel.
The ride-along rep tried out the three settings for steering. I liked Sport the best. VERY tight! The wheel was directly connected to the tires with that setting. Even standard felt squishy in comparison. (I drive an SLK 55 AMG).
The turn-by-turn was obstructed by the steering wheel, but I'm sure the wheel could be adjusted so it was comfortable to drive and didn't obstruct the console. As opposed to the Roadster, where you couldn't even see the MPH readout.
I think there's a misunderstanding here. As you lift off of the accelerator, the car employs increasing amounts of regen. If you then hit the brake, the brake adds to the regen. If it didn't do this, it would be very difficult for there to be a smooth transition between regen and braking.
What some people wish the car did was to coast with your foot off the accelerator, and then apply regen when you press the brake pedal lightly, and then apply friction brake in addition to the regen if you press the brake harder. This is how my RAV4-EV works, for example. It's called "blended regen", and it's a nice system, but you do have to switch between the accelerator and brake, while you can drive the Model S almost entirely with one pedal.
Not sure if anyone else answered your question, but my copilot did briefly switch to non-regen mode during my test drive in LA. In that setting, it felt like a typical automatic car with nominal engine breaking. After driving for a while in standard mode, I quickly got used to the regen and actually preferred this mode over non-regen.
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Wow. What a car, and what a company. I had my test drive today. The car was great. More on that in a second. Even more impressive is Tesla as a company, which really comes down to all of the people who work there.
They listened to the feedback from the Seattle drivers and input on this forum. Today, they offered up a choice of an alternate route today that took a short loop over I5. To everyone at Tesla: Thank you. You are amazing.
Now on to the car. All of the superlatives lavished on this car are absolutely spot-on. I've been driving high performance German sedans for a long while now, BMW and Audi mainly, and have spent some time behind the wheel of a Nissan Leaf, and none of that compares. The electric drive train Tesla has developed is absolutely game changing. I will not buy another ICE car again, nor will I consider "settling" for an EV like the Leaf. A great vehicle, don't get me wrong - tremendously practical, but hardly exciting and too many compromises in range (too little) and mechanical complexity (too high - ever look under the hood of one?). 10 minutes behind the wheel of a Model S was enough to convince me of that.
My current car ('11 Audi S4, chipped) does 0-60 in 4.5 seconds. I drove a Model S Performance today, rated a near identical 4.4 seconds. As others have said, it doesn't compare. The Audi is supercharged and has about as much low end torque as you can find in an ICE. It also has a trick dual-clutch transmission that shifts gears in 200 milliseconds. This all amounts to pointless mechanical fumbling compared to the Model S. As everyone else has raved about, the acceleration in the Model S is immediate and linear. It pulls immediately. No downshifting required. No waiting for RPMs to wind up high to feel max G's. No landing in the power curve sweet spot just to loose it because you hit redline and have to upshift. It. Just. Goes. This motor will truly change people's idea of motoring.
Style, fit, and finish to my eye were great. I noticed a bit of the rear hatch panel gap mis-spacing others have mentioned on one of the cars, a blue one, but honestly in person it didn't phase me. It's not the sort of thing I'd demand replacement if my car had it. There's enough else going on with the curves and bends to catch the eye that this minor issue doesn't. Besides I'm 100% certain they'll get the machining dialed in and nip this in the bud.
Head room was excellent. I'm quite tall - 6'6" - though much of that is in my legs. Front head room in both pano and non-pano was fine for me, which really surprised me. So, potentially some good news if you're tall and don't want a sunroof. Rear headroom though was _considerably_ better with the pano roof. I got to see a couple of kids hop in the rear jump seats for a minute - a 5 year old fit perfectly, a 10 year old was a bit too big. I would feel better putting my kids back there if the rear glass were laminated like front windshields. While the glass is standard tempered automotive safety glass (breaks into small non-sharp pieces, not dangerous shards), I cringe at the potential shattered glass pebble mess that would ensue in a rear collision.
Handling is good - solid, planted. Steering input is immediate and nicely weighted in Sport mode (same mode I run with in the Audi). Yes, you don't get the same sort of feedback you do in a hydraulically actuated steering rack, but I think for the market they're going after with the Model S this is ok. The car does feel quite heavy though. The low CG helps some, but there's no hiding the 4600 lbs. My Audi isn't exactly light at 4000 lbs, but it feels considerably lighter to me. All comes down to what you're used to. I'm sure to anyone used to driving a larger, heavier class of sedan (5 series, A6, E class) the Model S feels dramatically better. I regularly track the Audi - its suspension, AWD, and torque-vectoring rear differential all combine to perform some acrobatics of a physics defying nature. I wouldn't track the Model S. But that's ok. That's clearly not the market segment the Model S is aiming for. It's clear to me the Model S would be tremendously more comfortable and easier to take on long drives than the Audi. For a family vacation down the coast I want a Model S. It's a touring car. That's where it's aiming, and it clearly hit the mark. Amazing to hear myself saying that about an EV!
The only negative I came away with is on the brakes. They just didn't have the stopping power and pedal feel I was expecting, or used to in a BMW or Audi. Brake feel was mushy, the pedal went to the floor too quick, and it didn't have an immediacy to stopping that I would expect. Basically, it felt mismatched to the immediacy of the acceleration in this car. Super quick, instant acceleration. Mushy, slow deceleration. Hmmm. Perhaps all the day's activity boiled the brake fluid and/or softened up the brake lines? Some stainless steel lines and Motul 600 RBF could potentially solve that.
In conclusion, I found the Model S to be a superb, luxurious, comfortable, stylish, powerful car. Oh, and I almost forgot - electric.
Now I just need to decide if I'm ready to move up to a larger car like this. Tesla, if you're still listening: power folding side mirrors would help me fit this thing through my very narrow garage door.
They listened to the feedback from the Seattle drivers and input on this forum. Today, they offered up a choice of an alternate route today that took a short loop over I5. To everyone at Tesla: Thank you. You are amazing.
Now on to the car. All of the superlatives lavished on this car are absolutely spot-on. I've been driving high performance German sedans for a long while now, BMW and Audi mainly, and have spent some time behind the wheel of a Nissan Leaf, and none of that compares. The electric drive train Tesla has developed is absolutely game changing. I will not buy another ICE car again, nor will I consider "settling" for an EV like the Leaf. A great vehicle, don't get me wrong - tremendously practical, but hardly exciting and too many compromises in range (too little) and mechanical complexity (too high - ever look under the hood of one?). 10 minutes behind the wheel of a Model S was enough to convince me of that.
My current car ('11 Audi S4, chipped) does 0-60 in 4.5 seconds. I drove a Model S Performance today, rated a near identical 4.4 seconds. As others have said, it doesn't compare. The Audi is supercharged and has about as much low end torque as you can find in an ICE. It also has a trick dual-clutch transmission that shifts gears in 200 milliseconds. This all amounts to pointless mechanical fumbling compared to the Model S. As everyone else has raved about, the acceleration in the Model S is immediate and linear. It pulls immediately. No downshifting required. No waiting for RPMs to wind up high to feel max G's. No landing in the power curve sweet spot just to loose it because you hit redline and have to upshift. It. Just. Goes. This motor will truly change people's idea of motoring.
Style, fit, and finish to my eye were great. I noticed a bit of the rear hatch panel gap mis-spacing others have mentioned on one of the cars, a blue one, but honestly in person it didn't phase me. It's not the sort of thing I'd demand replacement if my car had it. There's enough else going on with the curves and bends to catch the eye that this minor issue doesn't. Besides I'm 100% certain they'll get the machining dialed in and nip this in the bud.
Head room was excellent. I'm quite tall - 6'6" - though much of that is in my legs. Front head room in both pano and non-pano was fine for me, which really surprised me. So, potentially some good news if you're tall and don't want a sunroof. Rear headroom though was _considerably_ better with the pano roof. I got to see a couple of kids hop in the rear jump seats for a minute - a 5 year old fit perfectly, a 10 year old was a bit too big. I would feel better putting my kids back there if the rear glass were laminated like front windshields. While the glass is standard tempered automotive safety glass (breaks into small non-sharp pieces, not dangerous shards), I cringe at the potential shattered glass pebble mess that would ensue in a rear collision.
Handling is good - solid, planted. Steering input is immediate and nicely weighted in Sport mode (same mode I run with in the Audi). Yes, you don't get the same sort of feedback you do in a hydraulically actuated steering rack, but I think for the market they're going after with the Model S this is ok. The car does feel quite heavy though. The low CG helps some, but there's no hiding the 4600 lbs. My Audi isn't exactly light at 4000 lbs, but it feels considerably lighter to me. All comes down to what you're used to. I'm sure to anyone used to driving a larger, heavier class of sedan (5 series, A6, E class) the Model S feels dramatically better. I regularly track the Audi - its suspension, AWD, and torque-vectoring rear differential all combine to perform some acrobatics of a physics defying nature. I wouldn't track the Model S. But that's ok. That's clearly not the market segment the Model S is aiming for. It's clear to me the Model S would be tremendously more comfortable and easier to take on long drives than the Audi. For a family vacation down the coast I want a Model S. It's a touring car. That's where it's aiming, and it clearly hit the mark. Amazing to hear myself saying that about an EV!
The only negative I came away with is on the brakes. They just didn't have the stopping power and pedal feel I was expecting, or used to in a BMW or Audi. Brake feel was mushy, the pedal went to the floor too quick, and it didn't have an immediacy to stopping that I would expect. Basically, it felt mismatched to the immediacy of the acceleration in this car. Super quick, instant acceleration. Mushy, slow deceleration. Hmmm. Perhaps all the day's activity boiled the brake fluid and/or softened up the brake lines? Some stainless steel lines and Motul 600 RBF could potentially solve that.
In conclusion, I found the Model S to be a superb, luxurious, comfortable, stylish, powerful car. Oh, and I almost forgot - electric.
Now I just need to decide if I'm ready to move up to a larger car like this. Tesla, if you're still listening: power folding side mirrors would help me fit this thing through my very narrow garage door.
After waiting 3 years, I finally got to drive the Model S today. I actually put down my $5,000 deposit the day the car was announced so this test drive has been a long time coming.
I want to make clear up front that these are my initial thoughts after an all too brief drive under non-ideal conditions. The Seattle test drive route was not nearly as good as what I saw from the videos of the Hawthorne and Fremont events. Today we were given the option to take a freeway route or the Aurora route (they must be reading this thread. However, when asked about both routes every Tesla employee told me that the Aurora route was better. They mentioned that the Freeway route was boring and that there were more opportunities for acceleration and curves on the Aurora route so I took that one...
A brief background. I own a 2006 Porsche Boxster S with sport chrono and air suspension. It does 0-60 in about 5 flat and the handling is utterly amazing. Now, I'm sure that the Roadster out performs my Boxster but I have never driven one. My sport driving experience mainly comes from my Boxster and the 3rd Gen RX-7 I owned before it. I own a Prius as well but there is no sport there... I was set on getting a Model S Performance as I wanted a car which exceeded the performance of my Boxster S.
Today, I test drove the Dolphin Grey Model S Performance with the 21" performance wheels. The fit and finish has come a long way from the Prototype and Alpha. As an early reservation holder, I was able to ride in the prototype in Palo Alto shortly after they announced the car. That thing rattled like crazy and half the car was false panels. I was worried that they would never get the fit and finish down. It improved substantially when I rode in the Alpha at the Fremont Factory tour and now it seems to be the best built American car I have ever ridden in. The Model S even has better fit and finish than my Porsche Boxster S which creeks and rattles a little and has a little too much cheap plastic in some places (like the frunk).
As everyone has noted, the acceleration is amazing. This is especially true when you are going 40+ mph as you do not need to get the engine into the power band before gunning it like you do in a manual ICE. You just hit the pedal whenever you want and it goes. I also had no problem with the regen as it is very similar to driving a manual when you have the engine at higher RPMs (in the power band). I was hoping that it wouldn't feel floaty like my Prius and it doesn't. I might even go for a higher setting if it was available as an option but it felt fine as is. I over heard the same Tesla rep line mentioned previously which is that it is a heavier car than the Roadster and so it only feels like it has less regen. Again, I've never driven a roadster...
Now, a huge negative for me. The traction/stability control as I drove the Model S Performance at the Seattle Get Amped event was way, way too aggressive. On the second turn onto Aurora I came to a stop at the stop sign. It is an almost typical 90 degree right hand turn like you would see on a city block except that cross traffic does not stop and is moving at 40+ mph with limited visibility. I waited for an opening and came down hard on the accelerator to quickly merge into traffic. I was shocked when the car moved much slower than I was expecting and a whine emitted from behind the center of the dashboard (not the back). The stability/traction control must have kicked in and it severely limited the acceleration until we were going in a straight line. It was way too heavy handed. The tires did not even come close to losing grip and I could have taken the corner faster in my wife's mini-van... This is not what I would expect from a sport/performance sedan.
I have no idea if they turned up the aggressiveness of the stability/traction control after the Fremont and Hawthorne events for safety reasons. I also have no idea if there are multiple settings for the stability/traction control as there are on most sports sedans and cars. I have never seen mention of multiple settings... When I mentioned that the stability control seemed aggressive to the Tesla co-pilot she just said that that is what it is there for...
My Boxster S has multiple stability/traction control settings. It has standard for normal driving which is about as aggressive as what I notice in the Model S Performance today. My Boxster S also has Sport mode which stiffens the air suspension, remaps the throttle response to be more aggressive and dials back on the stability/traction control substantially. The stability/traction control in sport mode on my Boxster S does not kick in unless the tires really lose traction. Finally, you can turn it off... which I have never done in my Boxster S as the sport mode has always been good enough. The default mode in the Model S Performance as I drove it today is not good enough and I will not buy the performance model if that is the only setting. Performance, to me, means more than just acceleration in a straight line. Unfortunately, in the Seattle test drive, there was no opportunity to really test high speed cornering except when powering onto Aurora avenue. All of the other turns were on heavy traffic (car and pedestrian) low speed surface streets in urban residential areas which would have been extremely irresponsible to drive aggressively. I did not experience handling which felt like it was on rails but I did not have the opportunity to really push it and find out... I do know that I am extremely disappointed by the stability/traction control as I experienced it today.
I would really love to hear from other test drivers. Did anyone else experience the heavy handed stability/traction control as I did? I have not really seen much mention of it which makes me think that maybe it was a recent change for safety reasons at the Get Amped events?
One more issue, the steering is not as direct as I would like. I am talking about road feel and not the turning rate of the sport mode versus normal and comfort (why???) which was fine. When I ran over the reflectors in the center of the road (on purpose) I could barely feel it in the wheel. When cornering, there was not as much resistance felt through the wheel as I would expect. I'm certain that this is personal preference but it does affect how sporty the car feels. I wanted the Model S Performance to be a first class performance sedan but after my test drive today I was left wanting...
Thanks for reading.
I want to make clear up front that these are my initial thoughts after an all too brief drive under non-ideal conditions. The Seattle test drive route was not nearly as good as what I saw from the videos of the Hawthorne and Fremont events. Today we were given the option to take a freeway route or the Aurora route (they must be reading this thread
. However, when asked about both routes every Tesla employee told me that the Aurora route was better. They mentioned that the Freeway route was boring and that there were more opportunities for acceleration and curves on the Aurora route so I took that one...A brief background. I own a 2006 Porsche Boxster S with sport chrono and air suspension. It does 0-60 in about 5 flat and the handling is utterly amazing. Now, I'm sure that the Roadster out performs my Boxster but I have never driven one. My sport driving experience mainly comes from my Boxster and the 3rd Gen RX-7 I owned before it. I own a Prius as well but there is no sport there... I was set on getting a Model S Performance as I wanted a car which exceeded the performance of my Boxster S.
Today, I test drove the Dolphin Grey Model S Performance with the 21" performance wheels. The fit and finish has come a long way from the Prototype and Alpha. As an early reservation holder, I was able to ride in the prototype in Palo Alto shortly after they announced the car. That thing rattled like crazy and half the car was false panels. I was worried that they would never get the fit and finish down. It improved substantially when I rode in the Alpha at the Fremont Factory tour and now it seems to be the best built American car I have ever ridden in. The Model S even has better fit and finish than my Porsche Boxster S which creeks and rattles a little and has a little too much cheap plastic in some places (like the frunk).
As everyone has noted, the acceleration is amazing. This is especially true when you are going 40+ mph as you do not need to get the engine into the power band before gunning it like you do in a manual ICE. You just hit the pedal whenever you want and it goes. I also had no problem with the regen as it is very similar to driving a manual when you have the engine at higher RPMs (in the power band). I was hoping that it wouldn't feel floaty like my Prius and it doesn't. I might even go for a higher setting if it was available as an option but it felt fine as is. I over heard the same Tesla rep line mentioned previously which is that it is a heavier car than the Roadster and so it only feels like it has less regen. Again, I've never driven a roadster...
Now, a huge negative for me. The traction/stability control as I drove the Model S Performance at the Seattle Get Amped event was way, way too aggressive. On the second turn onto Aurora I came to a stop at the stop sign. It is an almost typical 90 degree right hand turn like you would see on a city block except that cross traffic does not stop and is moving at 40+ mph with limited visibility. I waited for an opening and came down hard on the accelerator to quickly merge into traffic. I was shocked when the car moved much slower than I was expecting and a whine emitted from behind the center of the dashboard (not the back). The stability/traction control must have kicked in and it severely limited the acceleration until we were going in a straight line. It was way too heavy handed. The tires did not even come close to losing grip and I could have taken the corner faster in my wife's mini-van... This is not what I would expect from a sport/performance sedan.
I have no idea if they turned up the aggressiveness of the stability/traction control after the Fremont and Hawthorne events for safety reasons. I also have no idea if there are multiple settings for the stability/traction control as there are on most sports sedans and cars. I have never seen mention of multiple settings... When I mentioned that the stability control seemed aggressive to the Tesla co-pilot she just said that that is what it is there for...
My Boxster S has multiple stability/traction control settings. It has standard for normal driving which is about as aggressive as what I notice in the Model S Performance today. My Boxster S also has Sport mode which stiffens the air suspension, remaps the throttle response to be more aggressive and dials back on the stability/traction control substantially. The stability/traction control in sport mode on my Boxster S does not kick in unless the tires really lose traction. Finally, you can turn it off... which I have never done in my Boxster S as the sport mode has always been good enough. The default mode in the Model S Performance as I drove it today is not good enough and I will not buy the performance model if that is the only setting. Performance, to me, means more than just acceleration in a straight line. Unfortunately, in the Seattle test drive, there was no opportunity to really test high speed cornering except when powering onto Aurora avenue. All of the other turns were on heavy traffic (car and pedestrian) low speed surface streets in urban residential areas which would have been extremely irresponsible to drive aggressively. I did not experience handling which felt like it was on rails but I did not have the opportunity to really push it and find out... I do know that I am extremely disappointed by the stability/traction control as I experienced it today.
I would really love to hear from other test drivers. Did anyone else experience the heavy handed stability/traction control as I did? I have not really seen much mention of it which makes me think that maybe it was a recent change for safety reasons at the Get Amped events?
One more issue, the steering is not as direct as I would like. I am talking about road feel and not the turning rate of the sport mode versus normal and comfort (why???) which was fine. When I ran over the reflectors in the center of the road (on purpose) I could barely feel it in the wheel. When cornering, there was not as much resistance felt through the wheel as I would expect. I'm certain that this is personal preference but it does affect how sporty the car feels. I wanted the Model S Performance to be a first class performance sedan but after my test drive today I was left wanting...
Thanks for reading.
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OK, you all are posting so frequently and providing such insights that I cannot keep up and stop reading. I am trying to read the last message and go tuck my daughter into bed. Please! Will there be videos and photos next? Gosh!
Will there be videos and photos next? Gosh!Hey, Vegi. Welcome to the forums. When the system lets you, can you add your # to your signature (bottomof your posts) or your profile (or whatever it's called; to the left of your posts)? Thanks!
I know this is an older part of the thread, but just quickly... If you're going for the 40kWh, it won't be out for another six months or so, which means you should have ample time for another test drive before you have to pull the trigger.
Do you know what your steering setting was set to? When I test drove in Fremont, mine was set to sport and it felt stiff and very direct. I liked it a lot. I have learned a lot in this forum since my tests drive but back then, I did not pay enough attention to traction control so I cannot speak to that. Also, I may be spoiled by my A4's AWD.
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Here is a screenshot from my video, at least in the test drive cars, you can turn off traction control but it does not have different settings.
View attachment 7521
View attachment 7521
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