GM killing the Volt, shuttering 3 factories

[neroden]

I figured this needed to come out of market action.

GM killing the Volt:

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Factories in Lordstown OH, Hamtramck/Detroit, MI, and Oshawa, ON to be close:

General Motors to close Detroit, Ohio, Canada plants

Three major implications:
1 -- plugin hybrids are dead
2 -- Tesla may have a chance to buy some cheap factories (I strongly recommend Oshawa, it's a great location)
3 -- GM is walking off a cliff

 

[zanary]

The company confirmed that they will be laying off almost 15,000 employees and closing down 5 factories (3 assembly plants and 2 powertrain plants):

Oshawa Assembly in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada.
Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly in Detroit.
Lordstown Assembly in Warren, Ohio.
Baltimore Operations in White Marsh, Maryland.
Warren Transmission Operations in Warren, Michigan.

 

[neroden]

They also said they're shutting down two foreign plants though they didn't say which ones.

I'll repeat what I said in Market Action:
The Oshawa location is a square mile, with room to expand to the west. It has direct access to two freight railroads (so you can make them compete on price), and an expressway, and a PORT (you can load directly to ships with a little improvement). It also is within walking distance (if a pedestrian bridge is built) of a commuter rail station connecting to Toronto. It's an astoundingly good location, and if Tesla could buy it up cheap, it would be a coup.

 

[Ludalicious]

The only issue I have with the Hybrids. After you run out of juice you now have to haul around a 300lb battery. Makes absolutely no sense. Car companies last ditch chance to pretend that they are green. Can't stand seeing these vehicles in the car pool lanes with their ECO stickers. Grinds my gears

 

[Big Earl]

$GMQ

 

[Unpilot]

The only issue I have with the Hybrids. After you run out of juice you now have to haul around a 300lb battery. Makes absolutely no sense. Car companies last ditch chance to pretend that they are green. Can't stand seeing these vehicles in the car pool lanes with their ECO stickers. Grinds my gears

The vast majority of the time the volt is running off the battery. The fact is the three years it was my daily driver the engine only ran due to maintenance.

The GF drives it now and almost never uses the gas motor.

So in my experience we are lugging around a gas engine we rarely use.

 

[Vitold]

If Tesla produced semi and pickup in Canada - would there be tariff importing them to US?

Also I wonder If Tesla produced Model x and s in Canada - would Tesla qualify lower, non US, tarrif in China?

 

[mspohr]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Hybrids have had their day (such as it was).

 

[Ludalicious]

If Tesla produced semi and pickup in Canada - would there be tariff importing them to US?

Also I wonder If Tesla produced Model x and s in Canada - would Tesla qualify lower, non US, tariff in China?

Would eliminate Tariffs on vehicles sold in Canada if they are made here. I highly doubt any vehicles will be shipped to china due to the factory being built over there. I wouldn't be surprised if China starts shipping Tesla's to Canada. IMO I could care less if my car is built in China or the USA. If I save 20% instead of it being built in the USA, I am buying China made

 

[israndy]

So in my experience we are lugging around a gas engine we rarely use.

It was a good design. Especially the prototype aesthetics. The gearing the engine into the transmission in a serial hybrid was clever, having a battery that was big enough to run on every day, and the smarts to run the tank dry even if you are not using it for a year so you don't have bad gas the day you need gas.

Considering the time it was designed, it made more sense than a BEV that you can really only charge at home or a hotel. Still, glad I didn't buy it. My Honda Insight is still going strong and I think is still cheaper to drive than even my Tesla (unless you charge at the grocery store free charger... I do)

-Randy

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Time to short GM after +5% today. Donald sure as hell will act like he can stop these closures tomorrow.

 

[suwaneedad]

They also said they're shutting down two foreign plants though they didn't say which ones.

I'll repeat what I said in Market Action:
The Oshawa location is a square mile, with room to expand to the west. It has direct access to two freight railroads (so you can make them compete on price), and an expressway, and a PORT (you can load directly to ships with a little improvement). It also is within walking distance (if a pedestrian bridge is built) of a commuter rail station connecting to Toronto. It's an astoundingly good location, and if Tesla could buy it up cheap, it would be a coup.

What is the union labor situation in the Oshawa area? I suspect Tesla's incremental North American production capacity (once Fremont has been squeezed further) will come in Reno, due to cheap land and labor, and proximity to the production of the batteries and motors. I suspect any other location has to compete favorably against Reno in order to change that path. That said, it would not surprise me at all if Tesla purchases equipment from these shuttered GM factories, if GM will sell it other than by order of a bankruptcy court.

 

[EVNow]

Time to short GM after +5% today. Donald sure as hell will act like he can stop these closures tomorrow.

Depends … what are they saying on Fox News ?

 

[EVNow]

I suspect Tesla's incremental North American production capacity (once Fremont has been squeezed further) will come in Reno, due to cheap land and labor,

I thought there were issues with labor - housing & water - near NV GF1.

I think expanding to Canada makes some sense, to get experienced labor - but with some logistical issues. But the logistical issues Tesla will have to anyway deal with - they are going to have factories in multiple continents.

 

[neroden]

What is the union labor situation in the Oshawa area? I suspect Tesla's incremental North American production capacity (once Fremont has been squeezed further) will come in Reno, due to cheap land and labor,

Labor ain't cheap in Reno. You have to pay people to move there and there's a housing shortage.

Not so much if you put a factory in a location where employees can live *anywhere in the Greater Toronto Area*.

Don't know about the "union situation" in Toronto, but it's definitely not like Detroit. Lots of non-union businesses in the GTA, and I'm sure if the plant is closed, people will jump at the chance to have it reopened regardless of who reopens it. Feels like Fremont to me.

 

[Jeff N]

A link to my own write up.

As the owner of the 42nd Volt off the assembly line back in 2010, I’m writing a more personal remembrance that should be online tomorrow or Wednesday.

RIP

GM to build last Chevy Volt in March 2019 as part of major restructuring

 

[BerTX]

My guess is that Tesla will not invest in a location where the union situation is untenable. That leaves out all of the ex-GM locations listed except Canada, which I don't know about.

 

[brkaus]

They also said they're shutting down two foreign plants though they didn't say which ones.

I read Canada and Korea.

Mexico plants will stay open to continue to produce the trucks that will no longer be produced in the US plants.

 

[Jeff N]

Interesting speculation about the effect of CAFE regulations here:

 

[Vitold]

My guess is that Tesla will not invest in a location where the union situation is untenable. That leaves out all of the ex-GM locations listed except Canada, which I don't know about.

I read that union in Canada orchestrated a walkout as soon as they heard the news. They do not seem much different than UAW.