GME and AMC stock action (out of main)

[serendipitous]

I disagree with the conclusion you're drawing, but I do like the way you've presented it and the decision to provide it (that can be tough in such a one sided and passionate view we have here).

Gets a Like from me.

I hastily posted when I was only 22 minutes or so into it, when I did feel that Chamath was being dodgy (and I do still agree with my point that he chose an interesting way to "learn" about something by contributing to a run-up). By the end I agree with you that Wapner fell back to the tired old argument and was annoying.

I would have liked to see Chamath own up to the "I took my money and ran so that I could get this soapbox with you today and deliver my message" instead of dodging the question of retail investors being left holding the bag.

And I also would have liked to see Chamath respond more directly to the point that a short squeeze _is_ a fundamental - these WSB guys looking to squeeze shorts is just as valid a fundamental as looking at guesses as to future earnings.

 

[chronoreverse]

Chamath did the exact right thing ignoring the question about fundamentals because it was a loaded question (have you stopped beating your wife?). If the interviewer had been interested in a real thought-provoking answer, then the fact the fundamentals of a company and its stock price often don't align makes it obvious that it's irrelevant to a situation where the movement is purely a counter-reaction to shady play in the first place.

The answer is exactly as Chamath says: this shouldn't have been possible in the first place. The rules already prevent the retailers from hurting themselves from holding the bag in this way except they were circumvented this time. If the interviewer really cared about the retailers, he should be up in arms about the hedge funds breaking the rules.

 

[UnknownSoldier]

@AudubonB
I would respectfully demur that it is
"one of the most irresponsible market activities - in fact, #1 by a wide margin that has occurred in my lifetime."

I would agree that it most likely will end up hurting a lot of people, many not responsible

Take a broader overview of the rigged markets in general from your vast knowledge, experience in them and perspective of decades and tell me this was not overdue reaction to the inequities building for decades.

You should also acknowledge that from your high ground perspective,
someone needed to rein in the wolves, the ShortSellers Enrichment Comission certainly hasn't, not anyone in power anywhere, especially the ones who know or knew the faults

I would suggest the most irresponsible market activities are the =>failures<= of those with the ability to make things a scintilla of a bit more fair and the biggest screams are coming from the rotation from becoming haves to have nots

Well said. This is very much a backlash against inequality and the rigged nature of Wall Street. I would argue this is the real Occupy Wall Street except now they are wrecking the house from the inside and it's really great and entertaining to watch.

 

[amolina]

Who else is glad that all this drama is unfolding, so that we inch closer to the Tesla Earnings call without having to wait?

 

[Rarity]

I would have liked to see Chamath own up to the "I took my money and ran so that I could get this soapbox with you today and deliver my message" instead of dodging the question of retail investors being left holding the bag.

The shortsellers could indeed be the bagholders in the end if Gamestop issues stock to stop the short squeeze. That's the real and only solution here.

 

[chronoreverse]

The shortsellers could indeed be the bagholders in the end if Gamestop issues stock to stop the short squeeze.

Practically speaking, I don't see how it won't end up this way. It's certainly not the institutional sharks who ever end up holding the bag that's for sure.

 

[adiggs]

I hastily posted when I was only 22 minutes or so into it, when I did feel that Chamath was being dodgy (and I do still agree with my point that he chose an interesting way to "learn" about something by contributing to a run-up). By the end I agree with you that Wapner fell back to the tired old argument and was annoying.

I would have liked to see Chamath own up to the "I took my money and ran so that I could get this soapbox with you today and deliver my message" instead of dodging the question of retail investors being left holding the bag.

And I also would have liked to see Chamath respond more directly to the point that a short squeeze _is_ a fundamental - these WSB guys looking to squeeze shorts is just as valid a fundamental as looking at guesses as to future earnings.

I didn't want to quote out of context, but the specific point about being an interesting way to learn is interesting to me.

I've been making a point of doing a lot of learning in exactly this way around the TSLA options market (in particular the option selling market). Many posts from me about this in The Wheel thread. It's amazing to me how the emotions and learning changes when I have some skin in the game, even when it's small. I readily admit that $100k isn't small to me, but that's definitely small for Chamath. The nature of things is that what I consider small is a FAR higher % of portfolio than Chamath's as well.

And yet, that small amount was enough to get him into many things he wouldn't otherwise have gotten into.


I guess I don't see this situation as 'take the money and run' the way you do, but I also see how and why you see it that way. If I had to argue strenuously for my side of this, I think the best I can come up with is akin to something he mentioned in passing - he needs to deploy 10s or 100s of millions (I forget which he actually said) to move the needle. $100k isn't even enough for him to be worth 30 minutes of his time (my view on things) - but $100k to create a learning experience, that also makes money; easy?

Heck - the number of times I've observed how I like learning AND being paid to learn? I totally see that point of view. In effect, I see him as joining and passing through with barely a ripple in his wake.

This might be a 51/49 kind of situation, at least for me.

 

[JRP3]

I have to admit that Chamath wasn't really answering the allegation that was being made, i.e. "is it responsible for you to be egging-on the WSB/RH crowd", the implication being, and a fair one, I think, that when the music stops, there's be some retail that will get 3rd-degree burns out of this.

Except that anyone on the wrong side of any trade gets burned, so why is this special? The obvious reason is that suddenly it's the professional hedgies getting toasted at the moment.

 

[Tslynk67]

Except that anyone on the wrong side of any trade gets burned, so why is this special? The obvious reason is that suddenly it's the professional hedgies getting toasted at the moment.

I think the implication is that a lot of inexperienced retail will be diving-in, without really understanding what's happening. Yes I take the point that a lot of the analysis and reasoning on WSB is top-notch, as has been the case here, but people get caught-up in the hysteria

Of course we're all glad to see Hedgies burned and shorties scarred for life. And yes, it's ultimately their own fault for piling-in and shorting a company more than the available float. Which is immoral and obscene

Which then comes to the questions around fundamentals and valuations - with any kind of short-selling ongoing, never mind names shorting, how can any company's current value be judged when it has been so manipulated? Sure, $GME was trading sub-$20 before the buying started, but who's to say that if shorty wasn't around it would naturally be trading in the mid-$100's (for example)

 

[ZsoZso]

All that GameStop needs to do now, is to announce a 10:1 stock-dividend split to completely shut down naked shorting.
Since covering all ~140% shorts is mathematically impossible, this is the perfect setup for infinity-squeeze as long as naked shorting is disabled.

 

[AudubonB]

@AudubonB
I would respectfully demur that it is
"one of the most irresponsible market activities - in fact, #1 by a wide margin that has occurred in my lifetime."

I would agree that it most likely will end up hurting a lot of people, many not responsible

Take a broader overview of the rigged markets in general from your vast knowledge, experience in them and perspective of decades and tell me this was not overdue reaction to the inequities building for decades.

You should also acknowledge that from your high ground perspective,
someone needed to rein in the wolves, the ShortSellers Enrichment Comission certainly hasn't, not anyone in power anywhere, especially the ones who know or knew the faults

I would suggest the most irresponsible market activities are the =>failures<= of those with the ability to make things a scintilla of a bit more fair and the biggest screams are coming from the rotation from becoming haves to have nots, becoming "caught in a prison of their own devise"

That’s a very good point and I appreciate your having brought it up. YES: the SEC has not been doing its job and the Market Makers have, collectively, been taking advantage of a tilted table for which they themselves, to a very great extent, are the carpenters.
Those actions, I would say, are both despicable and deplorable. And, I will agree, more terrible to the functioning of the capital markets than that to which I was referring.

THE DIFFERENCE, I will posit, is in my choice of wording. For me, “irresponsible” refers to the unique actions of each of the bit players running after - and indeed, by their collective actions, so causing - the run-ups in GME et al. It’s not investing, it’s taking their presumed hard-earned money...or their children’s college funds, etc....and throwing good money after really bad money. THAT’s the irresponsibility. GameStop is not and - being not patronizing but calculating here - never will be Oops: on edit as I forgot to finish that sentence: ...”worth what it has been bid up to be.” And that means the carousel will, eventually, stop. The punch bowl will, eventually, be taken away. GameStop is no Tesla, repressed for 4-5 years from achieving a fair market price.

And that is the reason I liken it to Tulip mania.


But I do, as I said, appreciate the response.

One more point, one I to which alluded only very obliquely in my SPCE post: I told Jenny this morning “<Insert Your Favorite Colorful Words Here>, I am going to completely foul up my tax planning for the year and it’s still January. SPCE is rocketing out of control and we’ve got to abort.”

Shoulda sold calls, I guess. Though even that would leave me tax exposed.

 

[winfield100]

That’s a very good point and I appreciate your having brought it up. YES: the SEC has not been doing its job and the Market Makers have, collectively, been taking advantage of a tilted table for which they themselves, to a very great extent, are the carpenters.
Those actions, I would say, are both despicable and deplorable. And, I will agree, more terrible to the functioning of the capital markets than that to which I was referring.

THE DIFFERENCE, I will posit, is in my choice of wording. For me, “irresponsible” refers to the unique actions of each of the bit players running after - and indeed, by their collective actions, so causing - the run-ups in GME et al. It’s not investing, it’s taking their presumed hard-earned money...or their children’s college funds, etc....and throwing good money after really bad money. THAT’s the irresponsibility. GameStop is not and - being not patronizing but calculating here - never will be. And that means the carousel will, eventually, stop. The punch bowl will, eventually, be taken away. GameStop is no Tesla, repressed for 4-5 years from achieving a fair market price.

And that is the reason I liken it to Tulip mania.


But I do, as I said, appreciate the response.

One more point, one I to which alluded only very obliquely in my SPCE post: I told Jenny this morning “<Insert Your Favorite Colorful Words Here>, I am going to completely foul up my tax planning for the year and it’s still January. SPCE is rocketing out of control and we’ve got to abort.”

Shoulda sold calls, I guess. Though even that would leave me tax exposed.

having been born not that long after the tulip mania, I can say with certainty I have never bitten into or chomped on a bulb of tulip
one of the questions to me is, will this debacle force the new administration to clamp down on the short sellers.

I vaguely remember the up tick rule, but don't dabble in things that would only do wealth transfer.

My barely almost 30'ish children alerted me to GME last few ?days/week?, watching it in hysterical fascination
they call it "occupy wall street from the inside" more or less.
A lot of these folks will get burned extremely badly, now that it seems a pied piper has closed his long positions

It is a shame that those in power still may do nothing
(I don't quite remember much of the 1940's, but definately the 1950's finding a civil war cannonball that was immediately stolen)

 

[corduroy]

This user has got to be going crazy: https://www.reddit.com/user/DeepFuckingValue

This was from yesterday @ 147... now $293

He's up to $47.9M now, AND has cashed out $13.98M already.

 

[c041v]

WSB Banned from Reddit and Discord.

Interesting response to the little guys fighting back.

 

[Johan]

WSB Banned from Reddit

??? Amazing.

 

[pz1975]

Unbelievable the power these Wall St. hedge fund bastards have.

 

[juanmedina]

WSB Banned from Reddit and Discord.

Interesting response to the little guys fighting back.

it seems that is private now

r/WallStreetBets has been made private

 

[pz1975]

Replacement wallstreetbets subreddit open now: https://www.reddit.com/search/?q=wallstreetbetsnew

 

[JRP3]

It's back https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

It's not banned from reddit. The mods made it private so only those subscribing already can access. Kinda like a twitter account that goes private.

Edit: Apparently it was closed for about an hour. But only while the mods figured some things out. Not shut down by reddit.

The regular subreddit works fine for me. That's why you always join subreddits you read. Otherwise you are shut out when they go private which happens quite often.

Here's a message the mods wrote and pinned.

Where do we go from here and who is going to step up to help us?

Mods
We have grown to the kind of size we only dreamed of in the time it takes to get a bad nights sleep. We've got so many comments and submissions that we can't possibly even read them all, let alone act on them as moderators. We wrote software to do most of the moderation for us but that software isn't allowed to read the Reddit new feed fast enough and submit responses, and the admins haven't given us special access despite asking for it.

We're suffering from success and our Discord was the first casualty. You know as well as I do that if you gather 250k people in one spot someone is going to say something that makes you look bad. That room was golden and the people that run it are awesome. We blocked all bad words with a bot, which should be enough, but apparently if someone can say a bad word with weird unicode icelandic characters and someone can screenshot it you don't get to hang out with your friends anymore. Discord did us dirty and I am not impressed with them destroying our community instead of stepping in with the wrench we may have needed to fix things, especially after we got over 1,000 server boosts. That is pretty unethical.

To add to this, people are co-opting our name on twitter. I won't mention their accounts, but lots of handles with "wsb" and "wallstreetbets" in them are pretending to speak for us. They're saying things that we don't agree with, driving traffic to derivative communities and shitty pixelated merch stores, and generally making it harder for us to define who we are. There's also too much political bullshit in a community that was never ever political. The only way I want to occupy Wall St is in a suit myself or rent-free in the mind of a blown up short.

That is why I'm throwing my support behind the Twitter handle in general. We need a way to PUBLICLY reach out to the staff of the infrastructure that is failing us so the world can see that we aren't doing anything wrong here if they don't respond. We need to be able to respond directly to a reporter that is lying to the world about our clubhouse. We can't be expected to meet any expectations when we aren't given the tools we need.

That's not to say I approve of every message or will even be in the loop for all of them, but it's clear to me we can't do nothing and we need a megaphone.

http://twitter.com/wsbmod aka @wsbmod is the only Twitter handle whose statements are directly from some part of the team.

We'll do our best not to pretend to speak for you, but to try to speak with the volume our name now seems to command to get *sugar* done for us.