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Gotta admit - I will shop around when Audi/Benz/BMW have long range EV's

Discussion in 'Model S' started by calisnow, Jun 8, 2016.

  1. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    I admit - I'm getting very spoiled. While cruising around with my hands in my lap in the best car ever built I occasionally catch myself dreaming about cheating on her for no good reason - with a hot German. Anyone else plan to examine the electric long range offerings from the competition?

    Two things in this scenario of 2018/2019 would be required for me to consider a non-Tesla for my next car:

    1 - The competition will have solved the charging network problem - perhaps by licensing access to the Supercharger network. It's inconceivable to me that Audi and Benz are not working on a rapid charge network solution for the USA right now.

    2 - Their self driving will be on par with whatever Tesla's capabilities are at that time.
     
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  2. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    I test drive pretty much all non ICE vehicles that are out there...

    ...and still come back to Tesla

    I always like to have some wiggle room... It's how I went from Honda to BMW to Tesla...

    ...besides, I still miss the coat hook (those German makers tend to also have anemic cup holders, so there's that.)
     
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  3. mkspeedr

    mkspeedr Member

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    1 - They have a huge amount of work just to get current with Tesla today. I am not saying it will not happen but it will take cooperation from the Germans. There are a lot of superchargers.
    2 - They will probably catch up on the self driving and probably only be restricted by lawyers.

    They better start moving faster or they will not have a competitor in 2018/2019.
     
  4. Manny13z

    Manny13z Member

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    I'm pretty loyal to companies that continue to innovate and put out great products. As long as Tesla continues to do those things, I will continue to purchase their products.
     
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  5. xav-

    xav- Member

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    Tesla kind of remind me of the iPhone in 2007. Except that competition took the iPhone seriously very quickly. The car industry reminds me more of blackberry. There is denial, denial until it's too late.

    The shift to EV and to high tech software such as autopilot is coming. These guys have pretty much 0 experience in either.

    They have been around for a 100 years, they have every expectation that the status quo will remain. They don't realize how vulnerable they are. I think eventually tech companies like Google and Apple will take over and the auto companies that we know today will become more like assemblers like Foxconn. I could well imagine a company like Apple take over the software, design, battery technology and outsource manufacturing to them. These are the guys who have the big bucks.
     
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  6. bkp_duke

    bkp_duke Member

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    Tesla needs to improve the fit and finish of the interior compared to the germans. It's improved over the years, but for 100k+ cars they are still behind Audi, BMW, and Mercedes.
     
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  7. STbreaker

    STbreaker Member

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    I think it's a fair statement, but right now there is nothing that compares to the Tesla in terms of performance and innovation.

    Before deciding to get a Tesla, I test drove a few other vehicles. I really liked the Audi A7 - in particular, I thought the interior was considerably more refined than the Model S. It also had some driver assistance features, though not as sophisticated as autopilot. If Audi had an "EV version" of the A7 (or comparable situation at BMW/Mercedes), I think it could attract potential Tesla customers who are worried about buying a car from a startup company vs a well established German powerhouse.

    As a matter of fact, when I went to drive a BMW 550xdrive and mentioned they were in competition with a Tesla, the first thing the salesperson did was talk about how BMW has been around for 100+ years.
     
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  8. Vitold

    Vitold Member

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    #8 Vitold, Jun 8, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
    Some of that 100k+ cost goes into batteries, aluminum chassis, performance and doors. Therefore its all about priorities.
     
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  9. RogerHScott

    RogerHScott Active Member

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    As if that were a good thing, in this context. ;)
     
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  10. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    We have a 2013 Model S... I've always said that it was a $60k car with $30k in batteries....

    The updated ones are closer to a $75k car with $20k in batteries...

    Point is the pricing is for the tech and not the "luxury" features in the car. For example the cooled seats that the Model X has was fairly routine in some competitors in 2013...
     
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  11. Camera-Cruiser

    Camera-Cruiser Fully Charged

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    I think every one else will have to pay pretty high stakes for a seat at the table. I think creating your own charging stations across any county is an epic feat, piggybacking - maybe, but it will be on Tesla's terms. Now if it is approached in a manner that Tesla's can charge at BMW, Audi, VW, Toyota sites too.Then all boats will rise on that tide. We would all be better off if every manufacturer popped open 500 to 1000 sites, but then, is it some sort of a co-op?

    Realistically, the manufactures might be better off becoming members off a consortium that's sole purpose is to distribute charge points across the country. Then they buy power blocks based on anticipated future sales. All that matters to the consumer is that they go the consortium charge point.You can then choose to buy your own lifetime blocks from the consortium, or piecemeal it together in other time, or usage based blocks.

    In my current situation I would prefer to pay less for the car, charge at home, and pay a higher rate if I have to charge from the consortium. I think I have used a Supercharger exactly 4 times in 8 months. Once to learn, once since I went to Tesla's Hawthorn office, and twice because of a longer trip.
     
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  12. gaswalla

    gaswalla P4201/85/airsusp/pano/19i

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    I think we will eventually see cars coming from the traditional automakers that tout features 'as good or slightly better' than the Tesla vehicles being sold at the time. I also think that the fit and finish will actually be better from these luxury automakers. However, the battery technology (not just capacity) in terms of temperature management and lack of degradation is actually Tesla's massive advantage. Too many of the traditional automakers think EV's are just slapping on batteries onto a drive unit. Tesla has proven that their batteries sustain the test of time and heavy use. Also, I know that Tesla is going to support my vehicle well into the future either with simple manintenance and upgrades or huge things like getting a battery replacement or battery upgrade. Traditional automakers along with their dealers have a conflict of interest when they also sell and service ICE cars -- there is just too much long term money to be made from ICE service/maintenance. Last thing: That 150K Mercedes that has a 250 mile range is going to be pretty lame without supercharger access
     
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  13. 2virgule5

    2virgule5 Member

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    Indeed the lack of Supercharger equivalent is a daunting task to overcome for any serious attempts to compete at least in the US. German/European brands may have a savior in the European Union that could finance most of the charging infrastructure but then let's see what Bruxelles bureaucrats will have in 10 years... I don't see any credible competition in this regard by anyone so far, certainly not in 2018/19. BMW is dropping the ball it seems, VW wants to come but they are barely 'talking' Gigafactory and there is no action yet. Porsche niche mission E is a nice drawing with no path to develop any fast charging for their 800v spin on it (maybe one in Stuttgart?). Mercedes is announcing a SUV concept later this year with a plan for 2019, but so far they've only be able to bring a Tesla powertrain into ugly cars.
    Will they still have fancy interiors when they'll have to pay twice the price for low volume Korean made batteries? We shall see.
    Last hope is to wait and see what Apple and maybe whatever surviving startup with a Chinese billionaire backer will be able to bring in the same timeframe. That is to say I'm not holding my breath. Even late, the model 3 will be there as well (let's acknowledge that will also be a daunting task for Tesla themselves but it appears more and more probable every day).

    I truly wish there was more
     
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  14. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    There are no indications in the US that the German manufacturers are going to build a high-speed DC charging network. If they change their mind in a year it is going to take them at least 4 years to build one. And I predict they will not change their mind next year, nor will they invest in and build cars compatible with the Tesla Supercharger network, their pride will prevent them from doing so.
    Personally, I don't care about that one bit. I like the Model S interior just fine the way it is now.

    I am certain that Tesla will not have any serious long range EV competitors to the S, X, or 3 for at least 3 years. And yes, I do not think the Bolt is a serious competitor. The Model 3 will outsell it 4 to 1.
     
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  15. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    You don't think perhaps they are planning a network but they are in super ultra stealth mode and being completely silent about it? Because look at the situation if you are correct, and they are not planning to build their own network AND like you theorize, they are not planning to use Tesla's network. The very obvious question becomes - how will they sell EV's in the Model S price range without a charging network that is equivalent to the Superchargers in convenience? Are you suggesting they are either stupid enough to think that a rapid charge network doesn't have a significant impact on sales or they actually do not care whether their very expensive high end EV's will sell in large numbers?

    I know I, for one, will not dump $80K on an electric Audi if I have to resort to a patchwork of of semi-rapid chargers using the Plugshare app to find them as I try to drive long distances. :) Without the Supercharger network I would not have purchased a Tesla. Maybe that isn't important to most people, but it certainly is to me.
     
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  16. jomo25

    jomo25 P4398

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    Chances of any other company having a comparable offering in 2018/19 is very low IMO. I am not expecting it at all. Fit/finish, performance, technology, confidence in drivetrain battery, supercharging capability. I don't think anyone will match this til 2020 at least.
     
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  17. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

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    #17 AEdennis, Jun 8, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2016
    Actually BMW and Volkswagen sponsored the establishment (2015 or was it 2014 to start) of an East Coast Electric Highway (ECEH) and the expansion of the West Coast Electric Highway (WCEH) to include CCS... Whether it is successful or not is up to debate, but they've put in some effort vs. GM which is patently hands off with regard to DC Fast Charging.
     
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  18. Boourns

    Boourns Member

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    The legacy manufacturers have had 100 years to perfect the fit and finish of interiors. Tesla has had 10 (and really only 4 for a luxury sedan). Tesla will catch up.

    Put another way, Tesla is much closer to to zee Germans' interior quality than they are to Tesla's drivetrain tech.
     
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  19. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    I hadn't seen anything about this fast electric highway until now - very cool! It's a start.
     
  20. SΞXY P100D

    SΞXY P100D Member

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    My gut prediction tells me that I would rather consider an Apple or Faraday Future EV over a German EV; that's my bias for selecting innovators over traditionalists. So far, however, Tesla is the only one for me.
     
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