GPS issue since the past few weeks

[Gigaron]

That’s correct about FSD requiring the cabin camera…but I never tested it and it still works for me even though the camera seems to have been disabled via the backend server.

I’m sure at some point they’ll do a service bulletin to shield the cable or replace the cabin camera

The service team available through the app says they won’t escalate my issue and keep pushing back my appointment due to lack of parts. Now a month since I could use AP or navigation — not to mention FSD. I am not happy - and I opened a NHTSA ticket. But I am really ticked off that I am driving a lemon.

 

[Gigaron]

Going on 6 weeks and my appointment keeps getting pushed back due to no parts available — just the GPS antenna - they won’t order a new camera.

 

[Koolio46]

Going on 6 weeks and my appointment keeps getting pushed back due to no parts available — just the GPS antenna - they won’t order a new camera.

I’d ask them about the back end software fix…

 

[Gigaron]

I’d ask them about the back end software fix…

Multiple times. Told me it’s not possible.

 

[rrolsbe]

The service team available through the app says they won’t escalate my issue and keep pushing back my appointment due to lack of parts. Now a month since I could use AP or navigation — not to mention FSD. I am not happy - and I opened a NHTSA ticket. But I am really ticked off that I am driving a lemon.


View attachment 843448

I have recently requested access to the FSD Beta program. When and if I get approved, I will be more than just a little scared to install said firmware due to this potential problem. Not being able to use Navigation would make me livid. I consider your problem a safety issue as FSD Beta requires an operational camera and GPS. I believe the NHTSA mostly cares about safety related issues and can potentially make an OEM responsible for such issues for ten years?

Best of luck to you! Please let us know how this evolves, Thanks

Oh and I know before the responses come, first world problems.

 

[Gigaron]

Multiple times. Told me it’s not possible.

My GPS was stable on a 100 mile r/t drive, but I got a lot more “hands on wheel” dings. So am guessing that I got the back end fix. Yaaay!

 

[Gigaron]

My GPS was stable on a 100 mile r/t drive, but I got a lot more “hands on wheel” dings. So am guessing that I got the back end fix (see the other thread quotes above). Yaaay!

 

[Gigaron]

My GPS was stable on a 100 mile r/t drive, but I got a lot more “hands on wheel” dings. So am guessing that I got the back end fix (see the other thread quotes above). Yaaay!

Aw rats. I started turning on AP features and now my GPS is crazy so apparently I must have enabled the camera cabin again.

 

[rrolsbe]

Since I believe you have the FSD Beta firmware installed, do you think the GPS is faulty or the Camera is interfering with the GPS?

Sorry, I just read you post again. Looks like you believe the Camera is interfering with the GPS. Did you recently install a new version of firmware on the car? That might turn the camera back on?

 

[Gigaron]

Since I believe you have the FSD Beta firmware installed, do you think the GPS is faulty or the Camera is interfering with the GPS?

Sorry, I just read you post again. Looks like you believe the Camera is interfering with the GPS. Did you recently install a new version of firmware on the car? That might turn the camera back on?

Not new firmware - I enabled AP and apparently it turned it back on. Camera interference with GPS is a known issue on some vehicles.

 

[Freewil]

My Model 3 RWD was in service the last couple of days for this ongoing GPS circus. This is the second time in to address this issue. They had me submit bug reports whenever it occurred. The issue was escalated to the "Engineers." They informed me that the car was only picking up two satellites when the problem occurred. See photo. Case closed, not their problem. This argument makes no sense because all the other Tesla owners/drivers in my area (Burlington, VT) would have the same problem - which of course they don't. I'm at a loss. So angry.

 

[rrolsbe]

I have been all over the US in the past four plus years and have NEVER had a problem with the GPS not finding enough satellites for the navigation system to work properly. I use the NAV system virtually every time I drive anywhere. I feel your pain and would also be livid. Don't give up!!! Hopefully, Tesla did not charge you for reading the logs and giving you that crazy response.

 

[Freewil]

I have been all over the US in the past four plus years and have NEVER had a problem with the GPS not finding enough satellites for the navigation system to work properly. I use the NAV system virtually every time I drive anywhere. I feel your pain and would also be livid. Don't give up!!! Hopefully, Tesla did not charge you for reading the logs and giving you that crazy response.

No charge except the 6 hour round trip drive to get to the conveniently located service center.

 

[Freewil]

My response:

 

[mycroftxxx]

Use a handheld GPS in one of the problem areas; if it can show 4+ satellites in state 5 (code + carrier track), and your Tesla GPS is still flipping out, then it’s absolutely not a GPS constellation problem, external GPS interference issue, bad satellite geometry, etc. If you know an exact time and place this happened, you can probably find an online GPS constellation status page that can tell you what the satellite geometry was at that time and location, if any of the satellites were having issues, etc.

Other things to ask them (although I would be surprised if anyone at the service center even knows what any of these things are):

• Did they verify that the +5VDC to the antenna is there? Essentially all GPS antennas are active and get powered through the GPS antenna RF cable’s center connector; if that DC power isn’t there, the antenna won’t work properly.
• Did they force a cold start of the receiver by clearing out the almanac and ephemeris from the GPS receiver memory? This test can take up to 20 minutes, but it forces the receiver to download a new satellite almanac/ephemeris from the satellites; there’s a chance the almanac and/or ephemeris have become corrupt, which could easily cause tracking problems.
• Was the receiver sending any built-in-test failure codes? I have no idea how many BIT flags Tesla pays attention to in the GPS receiver, but I’ll bet they log them somewhere.
• Did they set your car up in a known good location for GPS reception, with another Tesla or a GPS test set as a reference, and verify that it is tracking (in state 5) the same number of satellites as the reference, the C/No (code-to-noise ratio) for each satellite is comparable between your car and the reference, the GDOP and HDOP were both 1, and no error codes were being logged?

As I said, I’d be surprised if the service center knows what any of the above means, much less can actually run the tests, but the above is what a knowledgeable GPS troubleshooting shop would do to diagnose GPS issues. To me, the symptoms sound like an issue in the RF side of the system: a bad antenna, issue with the antenna power supply, issue with the antenna cable or fittings, the RF demodulation, etc. Could also be issues with the correlators, that would make code tracking difficult and/or intermittent. But if you can show that a separate receiver works when the Tesla one doesn’t, and there were no constellation issues at that place and time, then that will show Tesla the issue has to be with the car. Whether they’ll listen…

 

[vandango33]

I’m in a 2020 MY using FSD with intermittent GPS drift as well. It’s always alarming and annoying. So what I’ve read so far is I should start recording bug reports, schedule a service visit, and then ask for a interior cabin camera replacement or the “backend” fix to get this resolved?

 

[Freewil]

I’m in a 2020 MY using FSD with intermittent GPS drift as well. It’s always alarming and annoying. So what I’ve read so far is I should start recording bug reports, schedule a service visit, and then ask for a interior cabin camera replacement or the “backend” fix to get this resolved?

Best of luck with the interior camera replacement. I mentioned that possible fix to service at least a half dozen times prior to my appointment. Not only did they not replace it, they never even acknowledged that I suggested it. It seems like they were intentionally avoiding it.

 

[Freewil]

Use a handheld GPS in one of the problem areas; if it can show 4+ satellites in state 5 (code + carrier track), and your Tesla GPS is still flipping out, then it’s absolutely not a GPS constellation problem, external GPS interference issue, bad satellite geometry, etc. If you know an exact time and place this happened, you can probably find an online GPS constellation status page that can tell you what the satellite geometry was at that time and location, if any of the satellites were having issues, etc.

Other things to ask them (although I would be surprised if anyone at the service center even knows what any of these things are):

• Did they verify that the +5VDC to the antenna is there? Essentially all GPS antennas are active and get powered through the GPS antenna RF cable’s center connector; if that DC power isn’t there, the antenna won’t work properly.
• Did they force a cold start of the receiver by clearing out the almanac and ephemeris from the GPS receiver memory? This test can take up to 20 minutes, but it forces the receiver to download a new satellite almanac/ephemeris from the satellites; there’s a chance the almanac and/or ephemeris have become corrupt, which could easily cause tracking problems.
• Was the receiver sending any built-in-test failure codes? I have no idea how many BIT flags Tesla pays attention to in the GPS receiver, but I’ll bet they log them somewhere.
• Did they set your car up in a known good location for GPS reception, with another Tesla or a GPS test set as a reference, and verify that it is tracking (in state 5) the same number of satellites as the reference, the C/No (code-to-noise ratio) for each satellite is comparable between your car and the reference, the GDOP and HDOP were both 1, and no error codes were being logged?

As I said, I’d be surprised if the service center knows what any of the above means, much less can actually run the tests, but the above is what a knowledgeable GPS troubleshooting shop would do to diagnose GPS issues. To me, the symptoms sound like an issue in the RF side of the system: a bad antenna, issue with the antenna power supply, issue with the antenna cable or fittings, the RF demodulation, etc. Could also be issues with the correlators, that would make code tracking difficult and/or intermittent. But if you can show that a separate receiver works when the Tesla one doesn’t, and there were no constellation issues at that place and time, then that will show Tesla the issue has to be with the car. Whether they’ll listen…

Thanks for the very detailed response. I don’t own a gps device other than my phone and I don’t think I’d buy one just to troubleshoot a car at the end of a lease. It’s clear from the service notes that Tesla wants to blame my location and not their car. I’ve had this problem in big cities (Boston, Montreal) and remote highways and mostly right in my city of Burlington, Vermont. I argued that if it were a location problem that many other Tesla owners in my area would be complaining loudly, which of course they are not… they’re not having it, they say “vehicle is performing as designed.”

 

[MWhy]

After updating to FSD Beta 10.69.2.2 (2022.20.17), I have not experienced any more GPS issues. However, temperatures in Central Florida are now lower and I do believe I observed a temperature dependent component to all of this.

 

[Gigaron]

I am going to guess that Tesla knows that this is a problem but won’t admit it. I think rhe latest software does some kind of diagnostic check and turns off the cabin camera if it is causing problems.