Gripes about the Beta interior

[smoothoperator]

I agree! I have seen far poorer executions of design on similarly priced or more expensive cars. Anyone who has driven a BMW in the past 10 years can sympathize with pathetic cup holder design. And remember iDrive? People still have nightmares about that. Anyone who has driven a Mercedes in the past 10 years can sympathies with bad center stack design. Anyone care to comment on how much they love the early iterations of COMAND? Can we get 36 more buttons please on the center stack, Acura? 2011 Hondas are still using 2003 tech on the interiors. Audi seems to be the leader in interior design as most car reviewers will say, but many feel the interiors are cold and busy.

What I do know is that interior materials and features usually reserved on more expensive brands are being used in this car. In 2007, nappa leather was reserved for the most expensive BMW's. Alcantara still is. Full leather dash details is not to be seen on any 50k car I know of, even if it is not full, real leather. After pricing out various details to match the interior features, a 550 Mercedes pushes 68k to get leather and alcantara, the BMW hit nearly $79k to get nappa leather. The Audi comes in cheaper at $59k but I'm not sure you're getting nappa leather. This is without features like distronic and adaptive light on the merc, blind spot, lane departure and oozed seats on the BMW, and nearly all fancy tech options on the Audi. Lots of nickel and diming there. None came standard with 19" wheels either.

I'm not a huge fan of the design elements of the S interior, but most things they got right. Another poster said that the iPad was the biggest tech letdown of the decade, and I disagree wholeheartedly, as subsequent posters pointed out, it has virtually replaced their home computers in nearly every way. No other tablet has been able to duplicate what the iPad has done. Some do some things better, but the total package is what sells 3 million iPads in 3 days.

Speaking of, someone else mentioned that the center screen looks poorly integrated. Probably true in some regards but its nigh impossible to put 17" of screen real estate anywhere in the car and make it look elegant and seamlessly integrated. I'm having a hard time envisioning how else they could have done it. To be honest with you, before I ever became sold on the Model S as an EV, I was drooling over this piece of tech, as it really breaks the mold of conventional logic, and hits on things that I have always wished for in my previous cars. The potential is tremendous as you start to ponder the upcoming apps and updates to software down the pipeline. Other manufacturers will be way behind the curve on this. Honda will still have 2006 graphics on its nav displays.

It is clear that if we are talking price points, it is the stuff in the floor boards and between the rear wheels that is really bumping prices up. I really hope that is the element that is done right at introduction. I'm glad that center console storage issues and cup holders are the main concerns so near introduction.

JMTC

I love Comand, I have an old Mercedes with Comand 2.0....I love that the navigation instructions are in the cluster (much like the Model S) and there is an honest to goodness numeric keypad on the nav unit (makes inputting numbers a breeze).. The aftermarket nav untis that I have used and the Alpine's that are in my roadsters are horrific. If it took 13 years to get to this point give me Comand. The ergonomics and usability of the early Comand still astonishes me. True it may not be a sexy nav unit, but it sure as heck is usable and works well. I paid 50k for an E-Class in 1999 with Comand and the interior design s much better than the Model S...Hands Down

The seats are ventilated & heated, there is a usable center console with coin tray. Nice padded arm rest, and the upholstery is like brand new (MB-Tex). Amazing technology for the day and still very usable today. People are always amazed that the car is 13 years old. If the Model S is half this car I will be very pleased.

 

[spatterso911]

COMAND was innovative, but I always had issues with the ergonomics of data input. It seemed a bit clunky for me...

This really illustrates that no matter how the issue is resolved, some will love it, some will hate it. Some just won't care.

MB-Tex is fantastic by the way...amazing how well it holds up compared to other materials.

 

[engle]

I like the elements of flow in the design as well.

I expect to see an Alpha or Beta Model S someday in the transportation and technology wing of the Smithsonian National Museum of American History, that's how important I think it will be viewed by historians in the future if BEVs mostly replace ICEs. The first American designed-and-built mass produced BEV.

I think the interior is very elegant in Black or Gray Nappa Leather. I take George Blankenship at his word there will be a Tesla-designed console storage accessory available for those who need it. I'm also very happy that the only issues most people are discussing so close to first production are: the lack of both an included center console with convenient cupholders and door pockets, and two-tone appearance of the interior when tan or white (signature) Nappa Leather is selected.

 

[ElSupreme]

I expect to see an Alpha or Beta Model S someday in the transportation and technology wing of the Smithsonian National Museum of American History, that's how important I think it will be viewed by historians in the future if BEVs mostly replace ICEs. The first American designed-and-built mass produced BEV.

I think the interior is very elegant in Black or Gray Nappa Leather. I take George Blankenship at his word there will be a Tesla-designed console storage accessory available for those who need it. I'm also very happy that the only issues most people are discussing so close to first production are: the lack of an included center console with convenient cupholders or door pockets, and two-tone appearance of the interior when tan or white (signature) Nappa Leather is selected.

If those are the two/three biggest gripes about the car Tesla has nothing to worry about.

 

[smoothoperator]

COMAND was innovative, but I always had issues with the ergonomics of data input. It seemed a bit clunky for me...

This really illustrates that no matter how the issue is resolved, some will love it, some will hate it. Some just won't care.

MB-Tex is fantastic by the way...amazing how well it holds up compared to other materials.

once you master the wheel knob for text input its pretty simple. Plus you can use linguatronic as well. You can tell Mercedes put some intelligent thought into the design of the E-Class. It seems like even the smallest details (such as an AC duct that can be switched on and off inside the center console for drinks etc) were thought of. I expected Tesla to take German interior design to the next level. Instead they created an interior that looks like Pimp My Ride. Does the Model S interior looks like it took 3 years design? To me it looks like a customization job more so than something a manufacturer would release..

I was hoping Tesla would go buy an A6, E-Class, and a 5 Series tear apart these interiors and take the best out of all of them and learn about intelligent interior car design. Instead they grafted a screen onto the dash as the centerpiece and went from there.

 

[bonnie]

If those are the two/three biggest gripes about the car Tesla has nothing to worry about.

I agree. Looking at the concerns, I figured it was time to buy more stock.

Bring it home, Elon!

 

[stopcrazypp]

Sure, some are saying the quality is not on par with cars in the same class (and you make a valid point that the Model S has the same interior over a larger price range), but I think most people's criticisms of the Model S interior stem from its poor design and lack of functionality. The argument that Model S is "just" a $57,000 car doesn't hold in that case.

A Honda Civic has a more functional interior. Providing side pockets on the doors, concealed storage space, and a better cup holder/arm rest design would not have increased costs by any noteworthy amount.

Which is why price has nothing to do with it, so saying the interior overall is not comparable to a car of X dollars is misleading (because that clearly implies overall quality to me and I'm sure most people). It seems the biggest gripes are on certain design decisions that likely have little affect on overall price, so it's better to point that out directly.

I think the concealed storage space (near the driver and separate from the glove box) and the cupholder/armrest criticism is largely valid. As for the door pockets, I'm not sure what advantage they provide over the current tray in the middle (since I think most people just use door pockets for trash, like I do).

 

[dsm363]

I used the door pockets for different state maps and for CDs in my old Volvo. Both of those things are no longer a concern with GPS and digital music/iPods. Have a little storage in the center area/arm rest is needed though.

 

[smoothoperator]

Which is why price has nothing to do with it, so saying the interior overall is not comparable to a car of X dollars is misleading (because that clearly implies overall quality to me and I'm sure most people). It seems the biggest gripes are on certain design decisions that likely have little affect on overall price, so it's better to point that out directly.

I think the concealed storage space (near the driver and separate from the glove box) and the cupholder/armrest criticism is largely valid. As for the door pockets, I'm not sure what advantage they provide over the current tray in the middle (since I think most people just use door pockets for trash, like I do).

Tesla Rep said in Engle's video that all the black trim pieces (regardless of interior color of the car) were due to costs. Watch his video he asks him why some pieces are black even though the interior of the car was a lighter color and the Tesla rep says its due to cost savings. Some design decisions are due to cost. Making a design decision and the overall cost are pretty closely related.

 

[Larry Chanin]

The center armrest pillar also looks large enough that the inside can at least be used for storage (does anyone know what's in there right now? Is it just empty space?).

Of course one thing that has to be factored in any redesign is that the duct work for the rear air conditioning vents must be accomodated. However, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to see a retrofit redesign that incorporates two rear cup holders for the rear passengers as well as more intelligently redesigned front cup holders and slide out trays for change, glasses, parking stubs, etc.

One other thought is that we are expecting the center console to both house cup holders and function as armrests. Perhaps we need purpose-built armrests that atttach to the front seats and fold up when not needed.

Larry

 

[Doug_G]

I'm fine with the existing look. I think the concerns about functionality would be pretty much resolved by redesigning the center armrest console, to include usable cup holders and some storage cubbies.

 

[strider]

Look at the Fisker Karma, if Fisker had gotten it right initially, there would be a whole different stigma attached to the brand. Tesla cannot afford to put out the 1.0 model then completely revamp the interior and then say "gee guys thank you for being early adopters but we had to change the interior ta ta." That will diminish the brand. If they have a plan, might as well be honest and tell the public that you can buy the Model S in its current form now or in a few months we are going to improve the interior and then you can defer until that point. I will feel pretty bad if I get my Sig and then a year later the interior is completely redone. My faith in Tesla will be tarnished, and I am sure I am not alone here.

Were you upset from Roadster 1.5 to 2.5? They added the double DIN stereo, subwoofer, more insulation to cut down on noise, a more pleasing front fascia (IMO), moved the VDS, buttons for direction, etc. Was your faith tarnished because they updated the car in little over a year?

Fisker is an excellent case study. I can't believe you can honestly compare the lack of a place to put your sunglasses in Model S to a car that doesn't actually get people from point a to point b which is the whole point of a car. No one gives a crap about how great the interior is if the car doesn't work. If Consumer Reports buys a Model S and it dies on them after 200 miles that is unrecoverable IMO. During the bricking incident I had complete strangers at work sending me e-mails with a link to the blog post. So Tesla MUST get the mechanical/driving parts right on day 1. If the cupholders are in the wrong place on day 1 or the plastic parts only come in black no one will care. Car magazines and every owner I've talked to have complained about BMW's iDrive yet they keep selling BMW's. But if BMW put out a poorly driving car they would be spanked right on the bottom line.

I'd rather have to bring my car in for a warranty seat replacement because the stitching is loose than be stuck on the side of the road. I agree with you that in a perfect world the interior would be "nicer" but with only so much time and resources I hope they're spending their time on the hard parts.

 

[Larry Chanin]

I feel that as a start-up company Tesla realizes that its most important overarching priority is to get the cars into production as promised.

To reenforce my point I ran across this article:

Why Tesla Motors Is Betting On The Model S

When I ask Musk if it's possible that Tesla could fail to sell 20,000 Model S cars annually, he says that it already has more than 8,000 preorders. And Tesla does not advertise, does not give discounts, and has never given any test-drives. Word has spread virally.

"So we're in the wrong sort of reference frame," Musk adds. "We're sold out--I mean, we're sold out until February of next year. I haven't checked the latest numbers. We might be sold out until March. So clearly we do not yet have any kind of demand problem. In fact, our problem is one of supply. Therefore our focus needs to be--and it is--on producing the Model S, bringing it to market as soon as we can."

So its not likely that there will be any deliberate delays to accomodate concerns regarding the interior, until that primary goal of getting cars out the door is achieved.

Larry

 

[smorgasbord]

Car magazines and every owner I've talked to have complained about BMW's iDrive yet they keep selling BMW's.

After two decades of BMW ownership, I stopped buying new ones because of iDrive. I don't want to use a telephone menu to setup my car.

That said, I just spent a half hour sitting in the recent Beta build Red Model S at Santana Row (it was pretty quiet on a Monday evening). It has some fit and finish issues that I'm sure they'll work about by the time RC is done, but overall the interior is OK. It's not good enough to sell me on the car, but it's not bad enough to discourage me from buying the car. It's just something to hold the touchscreen in place, and that's a pretty cool thing. Mine will be carbon fiber, which is cool, too.

 

[smoothoperator]

Were you upset from Roadster 1.5 to 2.5? They added the double DIN stereo, subwoofer, more insulation to cut down on noise, a more pleasing front fascia (IMO), moved the VDS, buttons for direction, etc. Was your faith tarnished because they updated the car in little over a year?

Fisker is an excellent case study. I can't believe you can honestly compare the lack of a place to put your sunglasses in Model S to a car that doesn't actually get people from point a to point b which is the whole point of a car. No one gives a crap about how great the interior is if the car doesn't work. If Consumer Reports buys a Model S and it dies on them after 200 miles that is unrecoverable IMO. During the bricking incident I had complete strangers at work sending me e-mails with a link to the blog post. So Tesla MUST get the mechanical/driving parts right on day 1. If the cupholders are in the wrong place on day 1 or the plastic parts only come in black no one will care. Car magazines and every owner I've talked to have complained about BMW's iDrive yet they keep selling BMW's. But if BMW put out a poorly driving car they would be spanked right on the bottom line.

I'd rather have to bring my car in for a warranty seat replacement because the stitching is loose than be stuck on the side of the road. I agree with you that in a perfect world the interior would be "nicer" but with only so much time and resources I hope they're spending their time on the hard parts.

I have 2 2.5's and 1 2.0....I felt bad when I bought my 2.0 and the 2.5's came out...I can see how people who bought 1.5's felt slighted after the 2.0's came out (bigger jump) without much warning. Also there were a lot more upgrades than what you mentioned, I am sure there is a list on here somewhere (i.e. upgraded PEM, GSM etc).

You realize the interior is part of the way the car "works" right? I am not sure how you seperate the interior, controls, etc from the way a car works? How is that even possible? I look at the complete package (especially at the sig prices), not just a chassis and motor.. Like I said I will get one regardless, I have waited too long not to get one...But the interior is a huge dissapointment and Tesla claiming that this car will be the best sedan in the world seems like complete and utter bs. No car can have an interior like that and be called the best in the world.

Idrive in its current iteration is not bad? have you tried it out?

 

[smoothoperator]

Fisker is an excellent case study. No one gives a crap about how great the interior is if the car doesn't work. If Consumer Reports buys a Model S and it dies on them after 200 miles that is unrecoverable IMO. So Tesla MUST get the mechanical/driving parts right on day 1. I'd rather have to bring my car in for a warranty seat replacement because the stitching is loose than be stuck on the side of the road. I agree with you that in a perfect world the interior would be "nicer" but with only so much time and resources I hope they're spending their time on the hard parts.

you realize Tesla also had a slew of problems initially on the Roadster right? This is a new type of car, I am going into this expecting there to be glitches and problems. I know that glitches can be fixed with software revisions & firmware updates. Unattractive interiors that are missing concealed storage and that loook cheap, these things are a little bit more difficult to fix. To think that it is going to be a perfect launch with no problems I think is a very optimistic view. There are really very few mechanical parts that will be problematic on the Model S ...the software is what makes the Model S (sure there may be the occasional bad battery, trust me I have seen my share of battery replacements in the roadster). If there is a widespread problem on the Model S the software is where the problem will be, and that is where the problem is on the Karma.

 

[dpeilow]

Some interesting thoughts in this thread.

For me at Geneva, I was surprised by the (low) quality of some materials such as the door panels. I'm not a fan of the chrome/wood effect. It reminds me of 80s GM. There were also some finger traps like around the rear air vents/storage hinge that I don't think are just beta.

Most of all though, I think they are hamstrung by the 17" screen a bit. 14" would have been fine, yet because that number has been out there so long, now they are forced to design the dash around it, rather than vice-versa. It's somewhat overpowering and I worry that it will be too bright and distracting at night.

I hope they take a second look at some of this stuff before July.

Comments about it being excusable because of the need to absorb the battery cost are wide of the mark. People will sit in it and subconciously compare to other premium cars. Look at the heat GM gets for supposedly putting a Cruze interior in the Volt (I've never sat in a Cruze but right now I genuinely prefer the Ampera interior to the S).

I'm being harsh because I care...


As for comments about the limitations of the Lotus chassis on the Roadster...so funny.

 

[jerry33]

I'm really happy that you have a choice of fabric rather than leather. I don't understand why anyone would want it. Hot and sticky in the summer, cold and slippery in the winter, and you're lucky if you get a year out of it before it cracks. Then again, I don't see why anyone would want a leaky hole in the roof of any car either.

 

[dsm363]

I'm not excusing the design issues with the battery costs, just trying to explain one possible reason the materials in the $90K Model S don't rise to the level of the similarly priced Mercedes. That doesn't excuse the center arm rest, cup holder issues or lack on decent internal storage.

 

[AnOutsider]

You realize the interior is part of the way the car "works" right? I am not sure how you seperate the interior, controls, etc from the way a car works? How is that even possible?

I think his point is valid. The interior sucking doesn't stop the car from getting you to point B as happened in some cases with the Karma.