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Ground fault protection a new complication for EV charging?
- Thread starter Plugsuvohio
- Start date
Electric700
Active Member
My GFCI breaker is continuing to work well, and I am happy with my decision to install it. For the extra safety, the cost was worth it. Just a side note, they now have combination AFCI/GFCI outlets too:
Leviton 15 Amp 125-Volt AFCI/GFCI Dual Function Outlet, White-AGTR1-KW - The Home Depot
When I replaced my panel every circuit is either AFCI or GFCI. It's been a couple years and the AFCI's have not falsed once (which can be a concern for folks). But the AFCI DID find a real problem in a ceiling light fixture !!
Nice to know they have combo now. Thanks.
Well, I try to make it a habit to not plug/unplug things while wrapping my fingers around the plug, touching the prongs while standing in wet sneakers on a concrete floor.
For a semi-permanently installed EVSE, it's really overkill and unnecessary. For my compressor (twist lock, never unplugged), it's overkill. If you're unplugging your UMC every day, maybe that's a concern. I'd be more worried about wearing out the plug and causing a fire than getting a shock from the plug
North American 240V isn't really any more dangerous than 120V; each leg is 120V to ground. You'd have to do something Darwin Award-worthy to get hit with the full 240 (like holding one hot in each hand).
Regarding pricing, you get what you pay for - (Square D QO) >> (Siemens==Square D Homeline)
RaeW
Member
Isn't the Tesla *cord equipped with a GFCI?
*that thing with the green flashing sequential lights and the red reset button on the back side
*that thing with the green flashing sequential lights and the red reset button on the back side
Hi Rae. So I understand. My UMC gen 2 charging cable has GFCI built in ? I’ve been going round and round with my electrician as to whether or
not to install a 50 amp GFCI breaker on the NEMA 14-50. I am using a regular non GFCI breaker currently. My electric inspector in Wareham didn’t know and is asking neighboring inspectors if they have encountered this situation. If it’s built in to the UMC gen 2 charging cable it would seem
unnecessary to install a GFCI breaker in my panel.
brucet999
Active Member
That's not what I meant. I was just pointing out that split-phase 240V isn't really more dangerous than 120V, unlike European systems that are 230V hot-to-neutral.
Touch a hot in NA, you get a 120V shock. Touching a hot in Europe, you get a 230V shock; much worse. To get a 240V shock in NA, you need to contact both hots simultaneously.
davewill
Active Member
That doesn't protect anyone touching the plug that goes into the wall. It only protects against something bad happening at the car end of things.
There are GFCI's on Hair Dryer's now. If you promise (cross your heart and hope to die stick a needle in your eye) to only ever plug in a GFCI Hair Dryer in the bath room will the inspectors give you a free pass?
It does not matter if what you plug in is GFCI protected or not.
The only install that doesn't need it, is the Wall Connector.
Why argue over a $100?
Well, I try to make it a habit to not plug/unplug things while wrapping my fingers around the plug, touching the prongs while standing in wet sneakers on a concrete floor.
For a semi-permanently installed EVSE, it's really overkill and unnecessary. For my compressor (twist lock, never unplugged), it's overkill. If you're unplugging your UMC every day, maybe that's a concern. I'd be more worried about wearing out the plug and causing a fire than getting a shock from the plug
North American 240V isn't really any more dangerous than 120V; each leg is 120V to ground. You'd have to do something Darwin Award-worthy to get hit with the full 240 (like holding one hot in each hand).
Regarding pricing, you get what you pay for - (Square D QO) >> (Siemens==Square D Homeline)
Valid point on 240 hot leg to ground. Which is all the GFCI protects against as well.
Yes, you get what you pay for. Any GFCI over none is priceless.
Not legally required, unless your state/town has specific rules or has already adopted 2017 NEC. 2014 NEC and earlier did not require 240V outlets in garages.
I'd still be concerned about nuisance tripping during the EVSE's self test. If you aren't regularly unplugging/plugging in the UMC, there's really little added safety. There's, what, a foot of un-GFCI-protected cord between the UMC's plug and the control box where the UMC's GFCI protection lives? Everything downstream of the control box has GFCI protection already.
I agree. But for liability and my families own safety I think it's a good idea.
It is being debated last I looked. One day it's in, the next day it's out.
I agree the probability is very low of an accident. For example dryer plugs don't require it (also a potential wet location).
But some people do regularly unplug/plug their portable UMC's and even if you don't someone in the future might.
UMC having GFCI built in does not protect the wall plug. UMC have GFCI built in is better than nothing but there is potential for an accident.
If you think saving $100.00 is worth it because it's not legally required in your house hold that's your business. I want folks to understand the GFCI built in does not fully cover you. Wall Connecter is covered because there is nothing live you can touch.
Daddy Daddy can I plug in the box for the car, sure son. Code Rule #1, people are stupid.
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Good stuff MSW. What do you think about plugging a wall connector into a NEMA 14-50?
It would be pretty much the same as a UMC.
It’s what the next guy might do with it. Or maybe curious boys playing in garage wonder what the plug is for. Perhaps if you secure it, it would essentially be “hardwired”. But what would you do when you move and take your wall connector with you?
Since legally GFCI is not required you would technically never be liable. But if someone stupid did have an accident after you left how would you feel?
If you are wanting a plug on the Wall Connector, I have to ask why? Future EV options?
You could secure it while your there and disable it when you leave. If future owner wishes to activate it again, it’s on them.
GFCI’s are just such great safety feature, simple, reliable and cheap.
BTW I forgot. Plugging a Wall Connector would be WORSE. UMC has a temperature sensor in the plug. The Wall Connector plug would not.
JPoldo
Member
If you have a standard NEMA 14-50 outlet, available for about $5 at HD, Tesla recommends leaving UMC plugged in all time unless needed for a road trip. Mine is removed only a few times annually. You can buy a more robust 14-50 outlet but be prepared to spend at least $30. For convenience, it's better to buy a second UMC or more powerful Tesla WC for home charging. Following Tesla advise adds considerable safety. If my feet or outlet was wet, I would turn circuit breaker OFF before touching outlet.
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