Has anyone taken delivery of a new Model S and opted for the steering wheel?

[dmurphy]

Sorry, that wasn't clear. Not that you are not an adopter at all, just in this case you are not. It doesn't fit you. Like I am a non-adopter of the Model X. I don't like the doors. They are mechanically complex, compete with headroom (most of my family is 6' - 7' tall, my daughter is the shortest one at 5' 11") and I don't understand the benefit aside from they look cool. So, I am not an adopter of Model X. Overall I am an early adopter of technology that suits me, as you seem to be. Just in the case of the yoke, we differ.

I gotcha now - all good!! And we agree on the FWDs actually -- I've adapted to them because the X fits a need we can't solve for any other way ... At the time, no other 3-row EVs existed; now the R1S is available as the only competition, but I'll still keep the X. My son's 6'3" and has no problem in the X, but in your clan he'd be on the short side.. I'll have to tell him that; he'll find it funny! haha. Otherwise I agree - FWDs are a solution to a problem nobody asked. Knock on wood, they've been absolutely trouble free for us, but I really could take or leave them.

Truth be told, the "best" EV for that purpose would be a minivan, but that wouldn't be permitted within 100 yards of our driveway... LOL.

We're all on the same team here; doesn't mean we have to agree to every identical thing - and I really appreciate the civility of this entire discussion -- it's how these forums are *supposed* to work (but usually don't!)

Beer's on me next time you find yourself in Jersey. (Or, I find myself in the Springs.... and then I'll suggest dinner @ Peppertree?)

 

[Boza]

If we really have to “reinvent the wheel”, imagine a yoke that turns to around 150’ each way, combined with stalks for turn signals and forward/reverse, and center horn. Wouldn’t that be a better solution than the current yoke?

 

[K.I.T.T.23]

If we really have to “reinvent the wheel”, imagine a yoke that turns to around 150’ each way, combined with stalks for turn signals and forward/reverse, and center horn. Wouldn’t that be a better solution than the current yoke?

Do we have to? no. I would even argue that the yoke is not a reinvention but a change in application (airplane to car).

Some fixes for the yoke:

• variable rate steering. Maxing the yoke turn to 150 or 180 degrees at most, I agree with you there.
• Center horn. Yes, 100%. I don't understand why it is lacking. That said, I would prefer a reprogrammable center button.
• Stalks. No. I do not agree with you here. To use an aviation reference, we want to maximize our HoTaS (Hands on Throttle and Stick), or in this case, keep our hands on the wheel with minimal or no need to re-position.
  
  Could the button placement on the yoke be improved? Absolutely, but old-school stalks are not the answer. Any time we have to flick a lever with a finger, remove our hand to shift, push a button on our stalk for wipers/windshield washers is a short period of time where our reaction time and attention is compromised. You may not realize it, but even the muscle memory of an off-wheel button push requires some amount of attention and time. There is also the chance for a bump in the road or something to cause you to miss; not likely a big deal, until the day that it is. This is why fighter jets and most modern aircraft maximize HoTaS in order to make sure that all buttons are quickly accessible with minimal movement to maximize reaction time and reliability. In my dream world, we are 100% stalkless, and the steering wheel is fitted with ergonomically placed buttons and/or paddles that would be reprogrammable to the user's design/needs. This would accommodate individuals with deformed hands, missing limbs/fingers, or just someone who is south-paw. The button settings would also transfer with the user's profile as the wheels are (in my dream world) universal with all vehicles.

 

[SoCal Buzz]

I absolutely bet the refresh does have stalks. Quote me on this and I'll eat all the crow you want if I'm wrong, but... I won't be.

LoL, if only we were so lucky. Elon is not one to admit hubris that easily (not since the Model X middle seat issues). A center horn and perhaps even scroll wheels / buttons that fully function maybe.

 

[Boza]

Do we have to? no. I would even argue that the yoke is not a reinvention but a change in application (airplane to car).

Some fixes for the yoke:

• variable rate steering. Maxing the yoke turn to 150 or 180 degrees at most, I agree with you there.
• Center horn. Yes, 100%. I don't understand why it is lacking. That said, I would prefer a reprogrammable center button.
• Stalks. No. I do not agree with you here. To use an aviation reference, we want to maximize our HoTaS (Hands on Throttle and Stick), or in this case, keep our hands on the wheel with minimal or no need to re-position.
  
  Could the button placement on the yoke be improved? Absolutely, but old-school stalks are not the answer. Any time we have to flick a lever with a finger, remove our hand to shift, push a button on our stalk for wipers/windshield washers is a short period of time where our reaction time and attention is compromised. You may not realize it, but even the muscle memory of an off-wheel button push requires some amount of attention and time. There is also the chance for a bump in the road or something to cause you to miss; not likely a big deal, until the day that it is. This is why fighter jets and most modern aircraft maximize HoTaS in order to make sure that all buttons are quickly accessible with minimal movement to maximize reaction time and reliability. In my dream world, we are 100% stalkless, and the steering wheel is fitted with ergonomically placed buttons and/or paddles that would be reprogrammable to the user's design/needs. This would accommodate individuals with deformed hands, missing limbs/fingers, or just someone who is south-paw. The button settings would also transfer with the user's profile as the wheels are (in my dream world) universal with all vehicles.

If the yoke has about 150-180’ move then I would agree that stalks are not necessary.

The reason I think stalks are necessary because the position of the buttons (in the current yoke incarnation) moves relative to your body. Which means that you either have to mentally track them or you have to look to find them before using them. Both introduce delay in the reaction. Stalks are always in the same position relative to your body - no need to track/verify their position.

100% for HoTaS. Another application is in the F1 cars. They have a bunch of buttons, knobs, even a screen of sort, but those never move relative to your body - hands in that case.

Having the yoke rotate so much is the core of the issue, not the yoke itself.

 

[K.I.T.T.23]

If the yoke has about 150-180’ move then I would agree that stalks are not necessary.

The reason I think stalks are necessary because the position of the buttons (in the current yoke incarnation) moves relative to your body. Which means that you either have to mentally track them or you have to look to find them before using them. Both introduce delay in the reaction. Stalks are always in the same position relative to your body - no need to track/verify their position.

100% for HoTaS. Another application is in the F1 cars. They have a bunch of buttons, knobs, even a screen of sort, but those never move relative to your body - hands in that case.

Having the yoke rotate so much is the core of the issue, not the yoke itself.

yep, like I said, that is the dream! I didn't know that about F1 cars, never followed it. Good info, ty

 

[Zcd1]

I drove a refreshed S the other day - it was equipped with the steering wheel instead of the yoke.

The wheel itself was “fine”, IMO, though I’d prefer a thicker rim and slightly smaller diameter myself.

 

[zoomer0056]

I drove a refreshed S

Which year, which version was this "refresh"? I think refreshes started quite a few years back. Every few months there's another refresh. That's like reading an old post where the writer says they have the latest software version.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

I drove a refreshed S the other day - it was equipped with the steering wheel instead of the yoke.

The wheel itself was “fine”, IMO, though I’d prefer a thicker rim and slightly smaller diameter myself.

It does seem like the steering wheel is an unusually large diameter to accommodate yoke's same control panels and to be able to see the cluster.

 

[Zcd1]

Which year, which version was this "refresh"? I think refreshes started quite a few years back. Every few months there's another refresh. That's like reading an old post where the writer says they have the latest software version.

2023 - 223 miles on it.

Demo at Tesla in Schaumburg IL.

 

[SoCal Buzz]

2023 - 223 miles on it.

Demo at Tesla in Schaumburg IL.

Did you honk?

 

[Zcd1]

It does seem like the steering wheel is an unusually large diameter to accommodate yoke's same control panels and to be able to see the cluster.

Makes sense and I thought the same as I was driving…
Still prefer the thicker diameter, smaller wheel in my Model 3P (as well as the wheel in my s/P’S Genesis GV60P)

 

[Zcd1]

Did you honk?

I made a sort of a honking sound myself first time I floored it from about 20 mph….

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Makes sense and I thought the same as I was driving…
Still prefer the thicker diameter, smaller wheel in my Model 3P (as well as the wheel in my s/P’S Genesis GV60P)

The Model 3 wheels is somewhat perfectly designed from an ergonomics perspective. It's not impressive looking, but it feels right.

 

[dmurphy]

I drove a refreshed S the other day - it was equipped with the steering wheel instead of the yoke.

The wheel itself was “fine”, IMO, though I’d prefer a thicker rim and slightly smaller diameter myself.

Seems more like a “legacy” S/X wheel then? If so …. Excellent.

 

[EVRider-FL]

I've been getting ready to order a new Model S, and I've been going back and forth on yoke vs. round wheel. I wanted to get more experience with the yoke before deciding, so I scheduled a test drive at my local service center (West Palm Beach) for today. I drove the car for about 20 minutes, and made lots of turns to make sure I got the most out of it. I had driven a yoke Model X once before for a few miles, not enough to get a good feel for the yoke.

The verdict: I'm going with the yoke. I like the feel of it when driving straight, better than a round wheel, and although I didn't love using it when turning, I didn't hate it either. I imagine I'll like it more after I get used to it and develop "yoke technique." I don't like the lack of stalks, but the shape of the wheel doesn't change that.

One thing I noticed: the navigation map icons are on the lower left of the map, not the upper right as they are in my current S and my wife's 3. The yoke blocked the view of the map orientation icon, but I didn't play with the seat/yoke adjustments to see if I could fix that. I don't know if the round wheel would have the same issue. Some things can be moved around on the screen, but apparently not those icons.

Time to pull the trigger!

 

[TLLMRRJ]

I've been getting ready to order a new Model S, and I've been going back and forth on yoke vs. round wheel. I wanted to get more experience with the yoke before deciding, so I scheduled a test drive at my local service center (West Palm Beach) for today. I drove the car for about 20 minutes, and made lots of turns to make sure I got the most out of it. I had driven a yoke Model X once before for a few miles, not enough to get a good feel for the yoke.

The verdict: I'm going with the yoke. I like the feel of it when driving straight, better than a round wheel, and although I didn't love using it when turning, I didn't hate it either. I imagine I'll like it more after I get used to it and develop "yoke technique." I don't like the lack of stalks, but the shape of the wheel doesn't change that.

One thing I noticed: the navigation map icons are on the lower left of the map, not the upper right as they are in my current S and my wife's 3. The yoke blocked the view of the map orientation icon, but I didn't play with the seat/yoke adjustments to see if I could fix that. I don't know if the round wheel would have the same issue. Some things can be moved around on the screen, but apparently not those icons.

Time to pull the trigger!

If I was ordering a new Model S/X, I would definitely get the round wheel no matter what. Used yokes are for sale on eBay for less than $300, and swapping to a round wheel is $700. And if people get to keep their yoke, you can bet used yokes will be dirty cheap in a few months.

Since changing steering wheels is an easy DIY job (plenty of TY videos on how to do it), you could have the best of both worlds for much less money than if you get the yoke and later wanted the round wheel.

 

[978650]

Right. When I’m parked, leave myself an out. Got it…

Ideally, yes.

Indeed, it may not be possible every single time but it usually is, even if it means parking a few metres farther. It goes with the rule that "your first move should always be forward" (even though in the age of backup cameras that's not so true anymore).

Other than that, I'm sure we can all think of some situation in which sounding the horn would be useful (I did give an example) but 1. you still have no control over the situation and 2. just how often is the horn used legitimately, as opposed to chastising someone for whatever road sin they have committed in someone's view, expressing anger or frustration, etc.?

IMHO car horns belong to a different age and should be removed. Most of their use is illegal and unnecessary anyway

 

[978650]

If we really have to “reinvent the wheel”, imagine a yoke that turns to around 150’ each way, combined with stalks for turn signals and forward/reverse, and center horn.

Nah. I'd replace everything with a command line interface: 80 × 40 screen and space cadet keyboard.

Steering wheels and pedals are just decadent capitalist habits.

 

[zoomer0056]

IMHO car horns belong to a different age and should be removed.

They are an extension of the person inside the car. Just like words in this forum are extensions of the person behind the keyboard. Some here type things without thinking ... just like others with their horn.