Has Model S quality improved?

[Mike Robinson]

When we went to pick up our Model3 there was an older couple in their 70's trading in their BMW5 for a Model3 ( they were just ahead of us and hence we saw what they traded and drove away with).

A month later I went into the SC for some rattle ( got appointment within a week, done within an hour and free supercharging to 90% for the ride home) a family was trading in their newish BMW3 for a Model 3.

I think there will be a glut to used BMW's in the market

A friend of mine just traded in his Porsche for a PM3, and LOVES the PM3! He's convinced that the value of ICE cars are headed downward big-time.

 

[PWlakewood]

Ah no, you're wrong yet again:
"...Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic international community of Tesla owners and enthusiasts."

Did you know that there are forums on space travel? And yet they don't require you to be an astronaut! Or a GoT site? Yup, no requirement to have ever appeared in it either!

See how dumb you sound? No? Well of course not, fanbois never do! One last time, this site is littered with people that are backing everything I've said/claimed about Tesla, AND THEY OWN THEM...yet not a peep from you when they complain about the same stuff I've been using as my sole reason to hold off on buying one!!

This is like talking to a nine year-old...are you actually typing from a Speak-N-Spell?

You really need to get out more. Arguing on the interwebz is so 2018 but you still think your points are relevant. It's time to give your uncle his bmw back and start adulting on your own.

I know it's hard for you to read, obviously as you keep stating false dookie.

Your bimmer has obviously let you down in so many ways if you are indeed considering (lol) a tesla (not likely) .
Since Tesla began operations in 2003, the electric car company -- named after 19th- and 20th-century inventor Nikola Tesla -- has been a gamechanger for the automotive industry. In just 16 years, Tesla has become one of the most important automakers in the business.

Never mind just electric vehicle sales, the Tesla Model 3 is now the best-selling luxury vehicle in the US overall, with more than 140,000 sold in 2018. The Model 3 helped the startup car company achieve 197,517 total sales last year, according to industry sales tracker GoodCarBadCar, allowing the all-EV luxury automaker to rank 20th among the top 35 auto marques sold in America. That ranking means Tesla's 2018 sales bested brands such as Chrysler, Acura, Cadillac and Infiniti.

As Tesla's popularity grows, it still has some hurdles to overcome, including build quality and reliability issues. For some customers, those issues have been exacerbated by Tesla's lack of a traditional service network. There's also ongoing concerns around the company's financial condition.

It's also a good idea to assess how your location and lifestyle will blend with an EV. Living in a rural area far from Tesla's Supercharger network could greatly impact your ownership experience. The answer, of course, is to ensure that you have access to Level 2 (240-volt) charging. The latter can run roughly $2,000 to $3,000 to have installed in your garage or parking space. Yes, a standard Level 1 (110-volt) connection from a common household electrical outlet will charge a Tesla, but the charge rates are problematically slow -- only about 5 miles of range per hour of charging. That means even a base Model 3 with the 220-mile battery pack could take more than 40 hours to recharge.
Today, Tesla's least-expensive model is also its most popular. So popular, in fact, that Tesla received nearly 200,000 deposits for the car on the day reservations opened. That popularity was likely spurred by the Model 3's promised $35,000 base price, but it took nearly three years after the car's unveiling for the Standard Range model to be made available. In fact, after putting the cloth-seat-trim $35,000 model on their configurator for a while, Tesla subsequently removed it, although you can apparently still order it over the phone or in person at a showroom. The net-net? Nearly all Model 3 sales have transacted at much higher prices.

Assuming you don't want to try and go through that special-order rigamarole to save $4,900, today's de facto entry-level Model 3 is the Standard Range Plus. It offers rear-wheel drive, a battery with a 240-mile range (per EPA estimates), a 0-60 mph time of 5.3 seconds and a top speed of 140 mph.

When the Tesla Model S arrived in 2012, the midsize five-door signaled to the world that Elon Musk and Tesla weren't just flashes in the pan, they were here for the long haul. Now on the market for almost seven years, the Model S received a visual update in 2016, but is overdue for a complete redesign. Of course, that will have to wait until the company can iron out the kinks with Model 3 production, not to mention launching the Model 3-based Model Y crossover, the Tesla Semi and eventually, the second-gen Tesla Roadster.

Over the past year, Tesla has ceased production of its lower-cost, smaller-battery, rear-drive Model S variants, which ultimately gives the product line more breathing room between itself and the Model 3. In 2019, the Model S continues to soldier on with its simplified lineup, but it can still travel farther on a single charge than any EV on sale today.

If I was moderately conservative with the Model 3, I am much more penny-pinching with the Model S, but that's really because the $79,000 base sedan offers most of what the average premium EV buyer needs at a lower monthly payment.

For a car starting at $75,000 (plus $1,200 delivery), the aging Model S has an interior befitting a vehicle priced in the upper $40,000 range. Therefore, I think it's worth $1,500 to upgrade to the somewhat more expensive-looking Black and White or Cream interiors. But even if you want to save your $1,500, you'll still get the same features the upgraded interiors

........I thought you may need to help deciding

 

[VikH]

I've made my point very clear in both this and other posts with the forums: I want to buy one but have HUGE apprehensions, but as seen and claimed here, because I state what has been a common theme throughout the site, and from quite a few car reviews, that quality and customer service is lacking to say the least. It's not even a stretch to claim when the majority of posts all follow that theme, so it's not like it's the exception to the rule. It's just that owners don't like non-owners parroting the very same issues, so by default you are labelled "a troll", which is a lazyman's response.

But here is the Tesla Syndrome in a nutshell: because you are early adopters of an industry that has plenty of naysayers, it's very hard extracting what is true from you, why? Quite simply because in most instances pride gets in the way. You see tons of people here sitting on the sidelines specifically because most cars of this price range have far higher quality control standards, and will go above and beyond at both point of sale and under warranty (because there are metrics/ratings they covet). But almost the opposite has been true w/Tesla, to the point that Musk himself has had to address it. People won't trip over themselves to defend Benz, BMW or Audi bs and that's because they know they can simply jump ship to the competitor. Tesla owners really don't have that luxury yet, so they put up with long waits for parts, repairs, return calls, cancelled appointments, etc. because they knew going in it was a young company. But let me ask you, five years from now when the landscape has changed somewhat...do you think Tesla owners will still blindly tolerate that?

As far as the article, it somehow frames it advantageous to not get a Tesla when buying used:

"...As a result, if you’re planning to buy a late-model (non-Tesla) luxury car in the near future, you’re letting someone else take a brutal hit in depreciation and getting a great car for relatively little money—much less than if you bought new, anyway. It can be a vicious cycle, but it can also mean a great deal for you."

As such, buying a pre-owned Tesla is a gamble at best even from Tesla themselves. You literally don't even know how well it's been taken care of until it shows up, and then can't even take it for a test drive, no?

Wait. You don't even own a Tesla? How can you even make any statements on quality and customer service if you do not have first hand experience? Holy hell.

 

[PWlakewood]

Wait. You don't even own a Tesla? How can you even make any statements on quality and customer service if you do not have first hand experience? Holy hell.

Oh boy here we go.....again. but but but he knows better than actual owners. Get ready to be called a fanboy and personal attacks. I hope your thumbs are ready.

 

[BulldogsRus]

You really need to get out more. Arguing on the interwebz is so 2018 but you still think your points are relevant. It's time to give your uncle his bmw back and start adulting on your own.

I know it's hard for you to read, obviously as you keep stating false dookie.

Your bimmer has obviously let you down in so many ways if you are indeed considering (lol) a tesla (not likely) .
Since Tesla began operations in 2003, the electric car company -- named after 19th- and 20th-century inventor Nikola Tesla -- has been a gamechanger for the automotive industry. In just 16 years, Tesla has become one of the most important automakers in the business.

Never mind just electric vehicle sales, the Tesla Model 3 is now the best-selling luxury vehicle in the US overall, with more than 140,000 sold in 2018. The Model 3 helped the startup car company achieve 197,517 total sales last year, according to industry sales tracker GoodCarBadCar, allowing the all-EV luxury automaker to rank 20th among the top 35 auto marques sold in America. That ranking means Tesla's 2018 sales bested brands such as Chrysler, Acura, Cadillac and Infiniti.

As Tesla's popularity grows, it still has some hurdles to overcome, including build quality and reliability issues. For some customers, those issues have been exacerbated by Tesla's lack of a traditional service network. There's also ongoing concerns around the company's financial condition.

It's also a good idea to assess how your location and lifestyle will blend with an EV. Living in a rural area far from Tesla's Supercharger network could greatly impact your ownership experience. The answer, of course, is to ensure that you have access to Level 2 (240-volt) charging. The latter can run roughly $2,000 to $3,000 to have installed in your garage or parking space. Yes, a standard Level 1 (110-volt) connection from a common household electrical outlet will charge a Tesla, but the charge rates are problematically slow -- only about 5 miles of range per hour of charging. That means even a base Model 3 with the 220-mile battery pack could take more than 40 hours to recharge.
Today, Tesla's least-expensive model is also its most popular. So popular, in fact, that Tesla received nearly 200,000 deposits for the car on the day reservations opened. That popularity was likely spurred by the Model 3's promised $35,000 base price, but it took nearly three years after the car's unveiling for the Standard Range model to be made available. In fact, after putting the cloth-seat-trim $35,000 model on their configurator for a while, Tesla subsequently removed it, although you can apparently still order it over the phone or in person at a showroom. The net-net? Nearly all Model 3 sales have transacted at much higher prices.

Assuming you don't want to try and go through that special-order rigamarole to save $4,900, today's de facto entry-level Model 3 is the Standard Range Plus. It offers rear-wheel drive, a battery with a 240-mile range (per EPA estimates), a 0-60 mph time of 5.3 seconds and a top speed of 140 mph.

When the Tesla Model S arrived in 2012, the midsize five-door signaled to the world that Elon Musk and Tesla weren't just flashes in the pan, they were here for the long haul. Now on the market for almost seven years, the Model S received a visual update in 2016, but is overdue for a complete redesign. Of course, that will have to wait until the company can iron out the kinks with Model 3 production, not to mention launching the Model 3-based Model Y crossover, the Tesla Semi and eventually, the second-gen Tesla Roadster.

Over the past year, Tesla has ceased production of its lower-cost, smaller-battery, rear-drive Model S variants, which ultimately gives the product line more breathing room between itself and the Model 3. In 2019, the Model S continues to soldier on with its simplified lineup, but it can still travel farther on a single charge than any EV on sale today.

If I was moderately conservative with the Model 3, I am much more penny-pinching with the Model S, but that's really because the $79,000 base sedan offers most of what the average premium EV buyer needs at a lower monthly payment.

For a car starting at $75,000 (plus $1,200 delivery), the aging Model S has an interior befitting a vehicle priced in the upper $40,000 range. Therefore, I think it's worth $1,500 to upgrade to the somewhat more expensive-looking Black and White or Cream interiors. But even if you want to save your $1,500, you'll still get the same features the upgraded interiors

........I thought you may need to help deciding

Dude, you own the oldest model they make, stop pretending like you can afford one when both of my cars cost more. You suck at this, no wonder everyone stopped upvoting your dumb schtick.

 

[BulldogsRus]

Oh boy here we go.....again. but but but he knows better than actual owners. Get ready to be called a fanboy and personal attacks. I hope your thumbs are ready.

Hey clownboy ACTUAL OWNERS at this very minute are stating the same things, what does it matter??

 

[BulldogsRus]

Wait. You don't even own a Tesla? How can you even make any statements on quality and customer service if you do not have first hand experience? Holy hell.

Are you serious? Wait, so if I owned a Yugo and thought it was well-built despite the overwhelming evidence and media reports showing otherwise...my point is correct?

Uh no, one doesn't need to actually own something to know that. Everything I've mentioned about the car has been backed up by actual owners on this very site, all of the links I provided in past posts, and from Elon Musk himself who stated that customer service needed improving.

 

[PWlakewood]

Dude, you own the oldest model they make, stop pretending like you can afford one when both of my cars cost more. You suck at this, no wonder everyone stopped upvoting your dumb schtick.

Hey clownboy ACTUAL OWNERS at this very minute are stating the same things, what does it matter??

So because I purchased a used model S that blows the doors off your bimmer somehow that equates to me not being able to afford a new one?

Is this DaddyS with a new screen name? Seriously dude no one is buying your ish. You might want to stop ( you won't) before you say or do something dumb ( you already did and will continue) .

I'm sorry and I feel the need to apologize for myself and everyone here (actual owners which you are not and obviously you can't even afford a 2012 model S 40) and the fact that we drive a superior car and you cant handle that. There are resources for people like you, please get help.

 

[North75]

I've made my point very clear in both this and other posts with the forums: I want to buy one but have HUGE apprehensions, but as seen and claimed here, because I state what has been a common theme throughout the site, and from quite a few car reviews, that quality and customer service is lacking to say the least. It's not even a stretch to claim when the majority of posts all follow that theme, so it's not like it's the exception to the rule. It's just that owners don't like non-owners parroting the very same issues, so by default you are labelled "a troll", which is a lazyman's response.

But here is the Tesla Syndrome in a nutshell: because you are early adopters of an industry that has plenty of naysayers, it's very hard extracting what is true from you, why? Quite simply because in most instances pride gets in the way. You see tons of people here sitting on the sidelines specifically because most cars of this price range have far higher quality control standards, and will go above and beyond at both point of sale and under warranty (because there are metrics/ratings they covet). But almost the opposite has been true w/Tesla, to the point that Musk himself has had to address it. People won't trip over themselves to defend Benz, BMW or Audi bs and that's because they know they can simply jump ship to the competitor. Tesla owners really don't have that luxury yet, so they put up with long waits for parts, repairs, return calls, cancelled appointments, etc. because they knew going in it was a young company. But let me ask you, five years from now when the landscape has changed somewhat...do you think Tesla owners will still blindly tolerate that?

As far as the article, it somehow frames it advantageous to not get a Tesla when buying used:

"...As a result, if you’re planning to buy a late-model (non-Tesla) luxury car in the near future, you’re letting someone else take a brutal hit in depreciation and getting a great car for relatively little money—much less than if you bought new, anyway. It can be a vicious cycle, but it can also mean a great deal for you."

As such, buying a pre-owned Tesla is a gamble at best even from Tesla themselves. You literally don't even know how well it's been taken care of until it shows up, and then can't even take it for a test drive, no?

Ok.. Thanks for the explanation.
I don't think I look at reports of Tesla's quality and customer service problems quite as negatively as you do, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Personally I haven't had any issues that have required me to go to Tesla service since last June, but I'm only a data point of one.

My personal opinion is that if you really want a Tesla you should take the risk and get one. I think the chances are that you will be happy. The cars really are pretty awesome. I agree the risk of having a problem certainly isn't 0 though.
Good luck figuring out when (or even if) the right time to get one is.

I agree the Capital One article spun the Tesla news as you could get a great deal on a used German luxury car. I don't think that was the main point of the article though. Might not be so good if you just bought (or want to lease) one. I say the jury is out on residual values of model 3's, but not worth worrying about that after you've bought one.

 

[Mediocrates]

Wait. You don't even own a Tesla? How can you even make any statements on quality and customer service if you do not have first hand experience? Holy hell.

Would you assert the Earth is round? Have you been to outer space?

Knowledge statements about anything would be limited to a handful of people if these were the critieria.

 

[12Pack]

From a technical standpoint yes, but you'd be hardpressed to say either an AMG or M-series has no feel to them. They've spent decades perfecting them and consistently are mentioned as "pure driver's cars".

Not really. They are heavy family sedans with a stiffer suspension and numb steering. I like my performance cars to be light and tossable with good steering feel (Atom, McL). The Tesla comes in as the perfect daily driver - smooth limitless power, excellent tech and low energy cost (both to me and the planet).

 

[SO16]

Would you assert the Earth is round? Have you been to outer space?

Knowledge statements about anything would be limited to a handful of people if these were the critieria.

Better to get the information from people directly familiar with the matter. The message gets distorted and quite useless as it propagates between people. Ever play “Telephone”?

 

[glide]

Having driven my friend's Model 3, I am complete enamored by the Tesla and seriously considering purchasing an new Model S.

While I think the technology and ideology of Tesla is amazing, but I am really weary of making the purchase due to all the information I read about quality issues and after purchase care.

It seems like a lot of the issues are consistent year over year for any particular Model.

So my question is, are purchasers with newer models experiencing the same issues or frequency of issues as the older models? Has Tesla improved their quality? It seems odd that a company focused on constant improvement of a vehicle would continue to have issues with say door handles year after year.

I guess what I looking for is a little comfort from actual owners that I can expect some improvement in quality and not have as many headaches as early adopters.

While build quality has improved, there is zero - and I mean zero - after care.

If I had to make my $100,000 bet again, I would bet on something else.

 

[vexige]

Scheduled through the app mobile appointment for the yellowing DRL almost a month ago, got all the follow up confirmation text messages.
Yesterday, less than a day before the appointment, got the message from from the "Tesla Virtual Service" (curious, who's the cretin who came up with that name...?), saying that not only the part isn't available, but they don't even have an ETA and they will let me know when and if... No "sorry", no "unfortunately", no "our apologies". To my question, why I wasn't notified earlier, they clearly knew about it all along, received total silence. Meanwhile, I had to change/reschedule all my appointments for the day...

 

[VikH]

Would you assert the Earth is round? Have you been to outer space?

Knowledge statements about anything would be limited to a handful of people if these were the critieria.

Okay I think you are getting a little abstract. Maybe they can make a few general statements about quality and customer service, but what about 86 statements? That is how many times @BulldogsRus has commented in this thread. One would think all the complaining would be coming from actual experience. It is misleading and spammy.

 

[VikH]

Scheduled through the app mobile appointment for the yellowing DRL almost a month ago, got all the follow up confirmation text messages.
Yesterday, less than a day before the appointment, got the message from from the "Tesla Virtual Service" (curious, who's the cretin who came up with that name...?), saying that not only the part isn't available, but they don't even have an ETA and they will let me know when and if... No "sorry", no "unfortunately", no "our apologies". To my question, why I wasn't notified earlier, they clearly knew about it all along, received total silence. Meanwhile, I had to change/reschedule all my appointments for the day...
View attachment 464213

This has happened to me multiple times when getting my acceleration shudder fixed. I just kept making appointments and eventually they got them. Part sourcing/logistics is still an issue. Maybe try escalating through support or talking with the SC (by pretending your car's in service).

 

[BulldogsRus]

So because I purchased a used model S that blows the doors off your bimmer somehow that equates to me not being able to afford a new one?

Is this DaddyS with a new screen name? Seriously dude no one is buying your ish. You might want to stop ( you won't) before you say or do something dumb ( you already did and will continue) .

I'm sorry and I feel the need to apologize for myself and everyone here (actual owners which you are not and obviously you can't even afford a 2012 model S 40) and the fact that we drive a superior car and you cant handle that. There are resources for people like you, please get help.

Right, the fact I own not one but TWO vehicles that cost north of $75k means that somehow I couldn't ever buy even an Model 3 P...which would walk your old car. all day...with better range. I don't need to stop when it's you that has no problem with the tons of complaints by current owners but gets upset when prospective buyers call out Tesla's known issues.

 

[BulldogsRus]

Not really. They are heavy family sedans with a stiffer suspension and numb steering. I like my performance cars to be light and tossable with good steering feel (Atom, McL). The Tesla comes in as the perfect daily driver - smooth limitless power, excellent tech and low energy cost (both to me and the planet).

AMG and BMW M make coupes that are far lighter and highly tossable, hence why they are considered by most reviewers and enthusiasts as excellent driving vehicles. Sure they consume more fuel but that is the trade-off for all that power across the entire band.

 

[vexige]

This has happened to me multiple times when getting my acceleration shudder fixed. I just kept making appointments and eventually they got them. Part sourcing/logistics is still an issue. Maybe try escalating through support or talking with the SC (by pretending your car's in service).

Actually your post proves my point... We have to "pretend" and "escalate" in order to get things done. Meanwhile, all it should take, the simple phone call ahead of time, not the text message from some virtual schmuck
I did schedule another appointment in two weeks, as I have zero trust that they will get back to me when my part is available. Next time I'm close to SC, I'll stop by and yell at the GM (if he shows his face), just like I did when they're playing games with me re: yellowing MCU and IC screens. I never had to do it with any of my cars before and it is frustrating

 

[SO16]

While build quality has improved, there is zero - and I mean zero - after care.

If I had to make my $100,000 bet again, I would bet on something else.

Sorry to hear that.

I guess it depends on the location evidently. Because I (as well as many others) have had great care.