Me either. Their service has been fantastic. I have never had to take my car to a service center, all my small services were done via rangers.
Everyone I have dealt with at Tesla has treated me well.
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Has Model S quality improved?
- Thread starter Northern Goat
- Start date
Me either. Their service has been fantastic. I have never had to take my car to a service center, all my small services were done via rangers.
Everyone I have dealt with at Tesla has treated me well.
That's great for you, but it is well-documented all over this forum that the ability to talk to a human when you need one is essentiall non-existent. Regarding my service experience, it took me 6 months to get to a service center; I had to take a day off to drive 2 hours to get there because Saturday appointments are non-existent. To be fair, once there I was treated nicely by the staff when I got to sit with them. Wow, I even got a loaner! The waiting area is at about the same standard as Chevy's waiting area, or like a Tire Kingdom. Everything was covered under "warranty", yet everything except the bubbled screen was curiously billed as "good will", as if a malfunctioning door handle was fixed as a favor, and BTW the dash rattle was not fixed. No, it is not the same vibe when I or my wife go to the MB dealer for service. Yes, I am treated like a king, like a return customer (we are). I enjoy the amenities and I get a clean car in return. Heck, I even get lunch. How in the world is a busy mom with 3 kids who does not live 5 miles away from 3 service centers going to have her non-Ranger repairable car fixed when she needs it?
"If Elon doesn't need it, neither do you." It is very much like Apple's business model.
So, you have a handful of anecdotes here of varying experiences. It doesn't really add up to data.
Some people, such as myself, had terrible experiences with quality/reliability. My 2017 Model S had the following replaced in the first 5 months: battery (the battery, in the first week), A/C unit, front wiring harness, and MCU (which is the 17" display and the computer that drives all the functions therein). None of the vehicles I've ever owned required warranty service (4-5 years of ownership each). This is not a testament to all Tesla vehicles, as it is a single data point. My second Model S (2019) hasn't had any equipment problems as of yet (3 months of ownership).
If we step back and look at many, many data points, you find this:
Tesla slips several spots in Consumer Reports reliability ranking
This is not forum bias. This is customer survey of all makes, which is probably the best dataset we have (unless Tesla is providing data on the average warranty services per vehicle).
Some people will erroneously bring up "owner satisfaction." This is not a metric of reliability or quality. Tesla has very high owner satisfaction (by the same organization above). The questions, "Do you like your car?" and, "Would you buy another Tesla?" are not proxies for "What components of your vehicle have required service/repair under warranty?" There are many reasons the former questions can result in favorable answers, but the latter question does not, which is mainly predicated on the former questions being subjective/qualitative and the latter being descriptive/quantitative.
Some people will also erroneously define "reliability" as the ability for the vehicle to transport itself and at least one other person from point A to point B without abject failure that causes the transport to abort. This definition creates a false dichotomy, wherein many parts of the vehicle can fail without incurring a failure of "reliability."
Some people, such as myself, had terrible experiences with quality/reliability. My 2017 Model S had the following replaced in the first 5 months: battery (the battery, in the first week), A/C unit, front wiring harness, and MCU (which is the 17" display and the computer that drives all the functions therein). None of the vehicles I've ever owned required warranty service (4-5 years of ownership each). This is not a testament to all Tesla vehicles, as it is a single data point. My second Model S (2019) hasn't had any equipment problems as of yet (3 months of ownership).
If we step back and look at many, many data points, you find this:
Tesla slips several spots in Consumer Reports reliability ranking
This is not forum bias. This is customer survey of all makes, which is probably the best dataset we have (unless Tesla is providing data on the average warranty services per vehicle).
Some people will erroneously bring up "owner satisfaction." This is not a metric of reliability or quality. Tesla has very high owner satisfaction (by the same organization above). The questions, "Do you like your car?" and, "Would you buy another Tesla?" are not proxies for "What components of your vehicle have required service/repair under warranty?" There are many reasons the former questions can result in favorable answers, but the latter question does not, which is mainly predicated on the former questions being subjective/qualitative and the latter being descriptive/quantitative.
Some people will also erroneously define "reliability" as the ability for the vehicle to transport itself and at least one other person from point A to point B without abject failure that causes the transport to abort. This definition creates a false dichotomy, wherein many parts of the vehicle can fail without incurring a failure of "reliability."
I don't think this rings quite as true anymore regarding ICE cars. I own a 2011 Dodge Journey that I am about to jinx by saying it's been running strong with 140,000 miles on it. In fact, I just faced my first real mechanical issue when the alternator died which cost a few hundred to replace.
Most cars now (except super/performance cars) are designed to go over 100k miles without any real issues. I'd still opt for my Tesla any day of the week though,
Reliability - The quality of being trustworthy or performing consistently well.
That to me is the ability to transport itself from point A to point B. Particularly the trustworthy part. Now consistently well is subject to a lot of interpretation. But there is nothing erroneous about reliability meaning the car runs everyday. Now that may not fit with your idea of reliability but it is a perfectly reasonable definition.
Early days (semi early) 2015. Most of the CR reported incidents were under something like "body repair" so that people went back to the dealer for simple little body issues - an alignment perhaps. In my case, my armrest was loose. That was my first year SC visit. That would get flagged by CR and treated (in some ways) as an engine falling out - which I understand never really happens. Honestly I have no idea what more recent issues were. But the big flags early on where things like loose armrests.
FWIW - my only other issues have been a dash and hatch rattle and drive shaft shutter. I have 77k miles. I am not counting the 12V battery that got replaced.
But either way, my car has been reliable to me because it has never failed to get me where I needed to go. It has had relatively minor issues that you can say violated the "consistently well" - but that is a stretch. They were fixed when I had them.
As far as frequency of repairs - not the same as reliability - it is slightly higher than a Toyota Camry. Yep - I can live with that. My prior car was a Honda Civic Hybrid that I don't think left me stranded but violated the "consistently well" part when the battery crapped out and it took threats to the AG to get it replaced. I never considered it unreliable despite that "consistently well" part - a terrible car, yes, but not unreliable.
Prior car 2005 BMW 545. Never left me stranded. Required 2x more service visits in 35k as Tesla has required in 77k. Did a swapalease to get out of it.
Colleague had 2013. Just not put together as well as 2015. I had a late 2017 loaner. Felt one notch above mine generally but it was new - so that may have been it. Our 2019 model 3 is put together well. A couple of minor things that a Toyota Camry probably doesn't have but nothing significant. Arguably it isn't fair to compare to a Camry - I mean drive one and then the other - is that a fair comparison?
Complain about anecdotes and then respond with one. Funny.
A little more background on those “reliability” surveys.
The Great Tesla Model 3 Consumer Reports Reliability Kerfuffle | CleanTechnica
Yes, Tesla does need to improve initial delivery inspection, materials and service pampering for those that expect it. I also think it’s bad that Tesla makes it difficult to contact them verbally. I was okay with the chat since that seemed to work well. I tried the online notification to ask about extended warranty but never heard back after 2 weeks. Hopefully Tesla will change course on this. But scheduling service through the app is super easy.
The biggest thing is mindset. Tesla does things different. And for those that need the ability to talk to someone, will be in for a surprise. But if/when there is an issue with the car, scheduling is easy. I certainly cannot expect for Tesla to have the entire service structure in place like the ICE industry for over a century. It will probably take a decade to get to ICE repair speed. But that’s a price I’m willing to pay for a vehicle that I find more fun to drive and overall fewer issues/maintenance than my previous gas cars.
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Petrocelli
Member
If Tesla didn't have the infrastructure to support the repair of vehicles, it shouldn't have put all those Model 3s on the road in less than a year. It discourages buyers, like me, who really want a Tesla, but are understandably worried about service. It probably annoys the S class owners, who paid $100,000 for a car, and now can't get anyone at Tesla to pick up the phone.
Musk is tarnishing his brand. He should not be focused on space rockets, renting solar panels, and selling insurance. He should have focused on building service centers, and creating a system to distribute parts to damaged vehicles.
So you are saying that you could build out 1,000 service centers BEFORE the revenue is there to help support it? That would take one HELL of a large investment up front.
They are making a mistake by being difficult to contact in the traditional method. And for people that can not cope with any other method, that’s rough. But if one is willing to try something new and just work via the app for service, it isn’t so bad.
FWIW, I paid 105k for my 2017 S90D and live in West Michigan where service centers are not even allowed in the state. The closest one is 3 hours away. But mobile service has been great for the two times I have used it. Once for delivery seat change and once for a 12v battery replacement. I have yet needed to go to a service center. Will do so next year before my warranty is up. I do have “slight” yellowing but will have them look at it when I bring the car in or upgrade to hopefully MCU2 (or future MCU 3) one day.
Petrocelli
Member
I certainly can't figure out how to build out service centers. But I assume that Tesla knew for a year or two that a whole bunch of Models 3s were going to be hitting the roads. Maybe Tesla should have started building them a year or two ago. Instead, Musk is building underground tunnels, and tweeting about those kids in that cave.
And I guess I am one of the people that "cannot cope" with contacting the people who fix my car other than by the "traditional method." I like to actually talk to humans. I can get a service appointment in a few minutes, and if I have a problem, I have the cell phone numbers of both my service representative, and my Mercedes salesman. I guess I am old fashioned in that I believe that service is part of a car, because all cars eventually need maintenance or repairs.
Right now, Tesla is pretty much the only game in town if you want a reasonably priced EV, with decent range, and that doesn't look like crap. (The Hyundai Kona is the exception.) In about three years, when my current lease expires, I bet every major car manufacturer will have two or three or four EV models. Those manufacturers have hundreds, perhaps thousands, of service centers. I think that will be problematic for Tesla.
The app is great, unless you need a Saturday appointment, or until you need to talk to someone. Then, there is nothing "new" about poor customer service. What is new is the rather low expectations from a luxury car maker.
Neither one of these things affect the Tesla bottom line.
“I guess I am old fashioned in that I believe that service is part of a car, because all cars eventually need maintenance or repairs.”
Yes they do. Hence it is super easy to request service via the app. “Old school”, is dying. For better or worse.
Been hearing this since 2015. So far, pretty much DOA. But I hope they do succeed. There can be more than one good EV manufacturer.
I just left a comment in the app when I needed service and some questions I had. They got back to me. True, it wasn’t right then, but quick enough.
If people DEMAND immediate voice response from support, Tesla is not for them.
Petrocelli
Member
PWlakewood
Active Member
Well documented on this forum is not a good representation of ALL tesla owners.....its known that forums like TMC are filled with people who want to vent frustration but that does not equate to a majority of owners.
Funny you should mention a Camry. I just happened to rent one for the weekend and my first though when starting to drive it was how much quieter the cabin was compared to the Model 3 I drove recently. You guys can say what you want about how awesome the EV acceleration and torque is but the build quality and soundproofing in the Model 3 is crap. There's no way around it.
Do you currently own a Tesla? If not, do you plan to buy one?
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My lease on my 2016 MS 75 is coming to an end. I had a weird rattle in a strut they fixed and the headlights have both been replaced. Also had to recalibrate the AP camera.
I’m pretty sure I’m going to buy a new MS. A number of improvements in the new ones over the 2016s.
But like the OP, can anyone speak to changes in quality or general performance (not necessarily range or 0-60 times, but maybe handling with the air suspension etc) that I might not know about with respect to the 2016s? I know one big change is going to be going from rwd to awd.
I’m pretty sure I’m going to buy a new MS. A number of improvements in the new ones over the 2016s.
But like the OP, can anyone speak to changes in quality or general performance (not necessarily range or 0-60 times, but maybe handling with the air suspension etc) that I might not know about with respect to the 2016s? I know one big change is going to be going from rwd to awd.
)) that's the go-to reply around here when fanbois run out of valid arguments to keep defending tesla
