Help, A-Pillar Defect Found

[Snowstorm]

I think it is up to you. If it were me I'd be insisting on replacement of the car, using the words structural integrity, crash worthiness, safety, and liability in every conversation. Force them to refuse to replace the car rather than hope that they'll replace it.

I am going to request that they replace it, but I do want to hear their side of the situation as well.

 

[navguy12]

Anything we discuss in these forums must be assumed will be read by anyone and everyone, including the media.

Rules to live by. Any internet communication must be made assuming the world is watching.

 

[Doctt]

Want to update us here on what's happening.

Mark, the manager at Excellence Auto (the certified body shop) returned my call this morning. He said he also believes that the crack happened during the manufacturing process and went through the paint shop as cracked due to how the paint was applied to the crack and inside. He was told by Tesla not to repair this yet, and have sent pictures and description to Tesla engineering to get their input on how they want to repair/replace this part. The good news is that the crack is about 66mm (2.6") long and doesn't extend too far below the hood, of course that is still a terrible thing to have in any car new or old. I asked whether this is structural or not, and he gave me a pretty long answer on how most parts of a unibody car is structural, but he doesn't feel this part is "very important" when it applies to the structural strength. He said if this was his car, he would choose repair rather than replace as it would be far less invasive to do (I think he has to dissemble like half the car to replace this piece), but he'll await the recommendation form the Tesla engineering team. If it was up to me, I think they should send this car back to the factory for a retrospective on their production line and build a new one.

Separately, Dustin Leitch the district service manager, called me today to offer reassurance that they will be looking into this problem and get it remedied one way or another. I will give him a call later this afternoon to see if there is an update.

Mark might have given you a honest professional opinion, but remember he can also benefit from this decision because this is one major project for his shop.

This is a blank new car. No way I would accept a condition like this. What if after they fix it and then it crack again after it is repaired. You don't want to keep sending the car back to shop even if they won't charge you anything. I would definitely ask for a new car

If Tesla refuses, I would send the report to Electrek and tweet it to Elon. Tell them this is a structural damage that may impact life if you unfortunately (wish it would never happen...) run into major accident.

Elon trends to react personally if this kind of negative news circulates in the press.

Good luck!

 

[Max*]

Mark might have given you a honest professional opinion, but remember he can also benefit from this decision because this is one major project for his shop.

This is a blank new car. No way I would accept a condition like this. What if after they fix it and then it crack again after it is repaired. You don't want to keep sending the car back to shop even if they won't charge you anything. I would definitely ask for a new car

If Tesla refuses, I would send the report to Electrek and tweet it to Elon. Tell them this is a structural damage that may impact life if you unfortunately (wish it would never happen...) run into major accident.

Elon trends to react personally if this kind of negative news circulates in the press.

Good luck!

I was going to say Electrek picked it up already, but no, different site: Tesla Owner Finds Torn A-Pillar on Freshly Delivered Model S

 

[Doctt]

I am going to request that they replace it, but I do want to hear their side of the situation as well.

You are such a nice person.....

Remember, once the production starts, it takes less than a week to build a car. If they take it to the highest priority, you may get your new car in a month including transportation.

BTW, since you lease your car, make sure you get a Tesla loaner when the car is being replaced (assuming they agree). The loaner must be in similar value of your car. Because you argue that you don't feel safe to drive the car, you should not drive your car when you wait for replacement.

Just my 2 cents

 

[rolson1011]

Going through delivery person is the usual method.
That does look pretty serious. You may be driving a rental (Tesla paying for it, of course) for a while.

No, they'd be ordering me a whole new car if they delivered to me like that.

 

[thegruf]

@Snowstorm - you present an admirable approach to this problem.

In response to a suggestion of repair I would query how they can demonstrate that this flaw is not a manifestation of a weakness in this piece of metal, that may be present elsewhere in this part as a structural if not a visible defect. Only a full x-ray analysis would be able to guarantee the flaw was localised to the visible defect, and in all probability that is never going to happen.

I am a little surprised that Tesla haven't simply pounced on this, grabbed the car back before the news gained too much traction and would argue that it is a mistake for Tesla not to have done so.

Of course it is your decision, but I certainly would not accept the car back.

In fact, that such an error could escape Tesla QC seriously concerns me, and will absolutely be a factor in my next purchase.
Tesla can no longer count themselves as a startup company, they have 5+ years experience in the MS, more than enough time to get this sort of thing right.

 

[sunilsf]

On the one hand, I'm glad you caught this. On the other hand, what would have happened if the crack wasn't visible but beneath the hood? Not fun to contemplate.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Anyone want to guess what the next top referral award is going to be?

 

[Snowstorm]

@Snowstorm - you present an admirable approach to this problem.

In response to a suggestion of repair I would query how they can demonstrate that this flaw is not a manifestation of a weakness in this piece of metal, that may be present elsewhere in this part as a structural if not a visible defect. Only a full x-ray analysis would be able to guarantee the flaw was localised to the visible defect, and in all probability that is never going to happen.

I am a little surprised that Tesla haven't simply pounced on this, grabbed the car back before the news gained too much traction and would argue that it is a mistake for Tesla not to have done so.

Of course it is your decision, but I certainly would not accept the car back.

In fact, that such an error could escape Tesla QC seriously concerns me, and will absolutely be a factor in my next purchase.
Tesla can no longer count themselves as a startup company, they have 5+ years experience in the MS, more than enough time to get this sort of thing right.

I am going to ask them to build me a new car. It is not fair to be paying full price, waiting a few month, only to get a significantly repaired vehicle. A couple mis-aligned cosmetic trims to be fixed on next service appointment is maybe tolerable, but not a car with a crack like that.

At this point, I feel they are acting in good faith to help. When I spoke to Kevin (local service manager), he said he is working with the Dustin (regional service manager) to look at potential options regarding building a new car. However, even when they agree to that , there is going to be a lot of headache invovled. Least of which is the build time. This is on a lease so I don't know how the logistics of the down payment (paid 25%), current payments, insurance and government incentive application in progress would work. Hopefully, they had experience with this kind of thing in the past and would make it as smooth as possible.

 

[Bangor Bob]

Just finally read this thread.

Holy hell. There were MULTIPLE places in the factory where people saw that and passed it on. Inspection after stamping. Inspection after welding/bonding. Inspection after painting. The windshield installer. The windshield trim installer. The folks who install the plastic surround under the windshield. The team that installs the hood. Final inspection. And of course, pre-delivery inspection at the store.

QA failure at multiple points. That part never should have made out of the stamping area.

Hopefully it wakes up a few quality managers at Tesla. That's just embarrassing.

 

[Sawyer8888]

This is on a lease so I don't know how the logistics of the down payment (paid 25%), current payments, insurance and government incentive application in progress would work. Hopefully, they had experience with this kind of thing in the past and would make it as smooth as possible.

Unfortunately you are not in possession of, nor or you driving the vehicle, so...

(Double-check these actions to ensure you're going about it correctly)

Cancel the insurance, effective the day you returned the vehicle to the service center. Speak to your insurance company about this.

Request a deferment for the lease payments.

Keep in mind that canceling insurance usually affects the vehicle's registration where many jurisdictions require the license plates be returned within 30 days of insurance cancellation. Check with your DMV in your state or county.

I believe that at this point there should be no additional money coming out of your pocket until you have a new Tesla delivered to you.

Tesla's service is generally very good, so they should be providing you with the proper guidance and ideally assisting you with all of these logistics.

You did nothing wrong. Tesla did. Therefore, Tesla should be doing the worrying about these things; not you.

 

[Kant.Ing]

Just finally read this thread.

Holy hell. There were MULTIPLE places in the factory where people saw that and passed it on. Inspection after stamping. Inspection after welding/bonding. Inspection after painting. The windshield installer. The windshield trim installer. The folks who install the plastic surround under the windshield. The team that installs the hood. Final inspection. And of course, pre-delivery inspection at the store.

QA failure at multiple points. That part never should have made out of the stamping area.

Hopefully it wakes up a few quality managers at Tesla. That's just embarrassing.

Maybe it is not people's fault, but some QC robots or the Vision. It would be exciting if Tesla's QC has gone fully autonomous.before AP2!

 

[cwerdna]

Maybe it is not people's fault, but some QC robots or the Vision. It would be exciting if Tesla's QC has gone fully autonomous.before AP2!

There's no way that inspection is fully automated in the plant. I've toured many auto plants and seen many documentaries on it. NONE are fully automated, including or excluding inspection.

Side tangent: In the case of a supposedly limited set of 2014 Leafs (supposedly 211 in the US), some were missing up to 6 welds under the hood. For those that were missing any of those 6 welds, the steps for the dealer were to contact Nissan and the vehicle would be REPLACED for free.

More info below:
2014 Nissan Leaf Recall: If Welds Missing, Car Will Be Replaced
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2014/RCRIT-14V192-2143.pdf?_ga=1.72507283.1031387854.1491546736
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2014/RCDNN-14V192-8788P.pdf?_ga=1.70817680.1031387854.1491546736

NHTSA campaign ID was 14V192000. One can look it up and look at the associated documents by search for 2014 Nissan Leaf at Recalls.

 

[navguy12]

government incentive application in progress would work

Snowstorm: side bar question for you on the Ontario rebate, as per page 5 of the Ontario EV rebate guide found here....

www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/forms/ssbforms.nsf/GetFileAttach/023-2096E~3/$File/2096E_Guide.pdf

Assign/give the incentive to the dealership/leasing company because they gave you a discount equal to the
incentive when you purchased or leased your car. You and the dealer/leasing company complete the
application together and then the Ministry of Finance will send your incentive directly to the dealer/leasing
company.

....did Tesla set it up as per the details above, or leave it up to you to deal with after the transaction with Tesla?

I hope Tesla solves your situation to your satisfaction ASAP.

Thank you.

 

[JRP3]

It would be exciting if Tesla's QC has gone fully autonomous.before AP2!

Not if it's this incompetent.

 

[Snowstorm]

Snowstorm: side bar question for you on the Ontario rebate, as per page 5 of the Ontario EV rebate guide found here....

www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/forms/ssbforms.nsf/GetFileAttach/023-2096E~3/$File/2096E_Guide.pdf

Assign/give the incentive to the dealership/leasing company because they gave you a discount equal to the
incentive when you purchased or leased your car. You and the dealer/leasing company complete the
application together and then the Ministry of Finance will send your incentive directly to the dealer/leasing
company.

....did Tesla set it up as per the details above, or leave it up to you to deal with after the transaction with Tesla?

I hope Tesla solves your situation to your satisfaction ASAP.

Thank you.

The application is in my name and I paid full price to Tesla and am expecting a rebate to me later on.

It has only been a few days so far, I'll leave my insurance and lease as is (1st month already paid) and see how it pans out next week. I don't want to cancel insurance and risk complications should a tesla staff gets into a wreck as they drive the original model s. Things will definitely have to change if this drags on, but at his time, I'll give this a few more days to sort out.

I expect they'll give me an answer on the specific resolution on this by early or at the latest middle of next week.

 

[Sawyer8888]

I don't want to cancel insurance and risk complications should a tesla staff gets into a wreck as they drive the original model s. Things will definitely have to change if this drags on, but at his time, I'll give this a few more days to sort out.

I understand your position. Although considering this particular manufacturing error (massive IMO) I would no longer consider the car to be mine. Tesla is now responsible for anything that happens to it from this point forward. There's no way you will be held responsible for whatever happens to it while it's in Tesla's hands. At least that would be my stance.

Thank you for keeping us updated. Very much appreciated.

All the best to you in this adventure.

 

[cbdream99]

At the end I hope Tesla will give an explanation of what happened and what to inspect in the future. Mine is in production now and every time I hear this type of stories raise my blood pressure.

 

[MostlyStock]

I'm not sure this repair is as bad as most everyone thinks. The hood and windshield need to be removed, the small area around the crack needs to cut out, a patch can be made out of a new panel (98% wasted) and butted welded in. It should be nearly structurally identical to a new car and you might lose some sound deadening material in the process. The car should be devalued by about half of the cost of the repair.

This is a good picture of the that part of the unibody. Photo Gallery | Car and Driver