Help Fight the FUD

[Unpilot]

This guy is a new Dr. doom. While I do like some of his stuff...this one was wrong on many levels.

 

[Nocturnal]

This guy is a new Dr. doom. While I do like some of his stuff...this one was wrong on many levels.

It's wild that a person can just say things on YT video and people will believe them. EV's have a frame so they are worse than gas cars!

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1613708275564052483

 

[israndy]

Imagine how reliable the newer cars are gonna be. Efuses and removing all the parts that are unneeded as possible like the battery heater, should only be more impressive.

 

[afadeev]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1613708275564052483

Beware of propagating FUD - this source is garbage.
caredge.com claims that Tesla's average 10-year maintenance cost is $5,867, or $1,115 for Model 3 over 5 years.
That's utter and pure BS.

I've spent $3.5K already on tires alone during first 3.5 years of ownership (+1 summer, +2 winter sets). Never mind bleeding the brakes, replacing front upper control arms ($850 job under warranty, for now), and all other consumables.

They also calculate maintenance costs off OEM published maintenance schedules.
Since Tesla's is fake (it claims the only thing you need to do during first 120K miles is to rotate tires and replace cabin air filter, nothing else) while other OEMs is more realistic, the results are garbage.

Just because something makes Teslas look good, doesn't mean it's right!

 

[israndy]

Tires are based on your driving, sounds like you have a lead foot. I do like putting miles on my T so I drive in Chill mode and when I buy tires I buy from TireRack and pick up in Reno myself, or I buy used, to save money. Spent $10 on a pair of 60% tread tires off a Camery once. Only just replaced them this summer.

You're inclusion of warranty work in your expenses incurred tells me you have an agenda. If you didn't pay for it, it's not an expense.

I am at 137k now and the only expense other than tires and wiper blades and cabin air filters (all I have done myself) has been warranty work, or a single failure out of warranty of the DC coupler that connects the charge port to the battery, $900 installed, and they loaned me a car for the week of service so I could continue the roadtrip I was on, saved me paying for charging until I got back to Salt Lake to pick up my fixed car.

Calling the schedule fake doesn't make it fake. Your control arm replacement wasn't on the schedule as it's not routine maintenance, it broke under warranty and Tesla replaced it for you. Other manufacturers require you to break in the engine and then make an appointment so that they can test the engine fluids, then every several thousand miles come in again to have them ask you if you want various unneeded parts changed and out of fear of breaking your expensive new vehicle you say 'yes' to cover their lack of profit from the initial sale of the car.

Give me a Tesla any day, so glad to be out of that rat race

 

[Xepa777]

I’m going to various non tesla forums about the tesla price cuts and sharing my experiences. Recommend others do as well

 

[afadeev]

Tires are based on your driving, sounds like you have a lead foot. I do like putting miles on my T so I drive in Chill mode and when I buy tires I buy from TireRack and pick up in Reno myself, or I buy used, to save money.

I source all my tires from online retailers as well: TireRack.com and Tirebuyer.com
I recommend the same to everyone I know. Sounds like we are on the same page here.

EVs are heavy. They chew through tires at an accelerated rate.
As to the lead foot - talk to my better half. She drives the TM3P almost exclusively. I'm in no mood to critic her driving, for the obvious reasons.

You're inclusion of warranty work in your expenses incurred tells me you have an agenda. If you didn't pay for it, it's not an expense.

Disclosed, not included.
It's fairly self-evident that warranty work doesn't come out of the owner's pocket.

Your attempt to go emotional with claims of "agenda" is duly noted.

Calling the schedule fake doesn't make it fake. Your control arm replacement wasn't on the schedule as it's not routine maintenance, it broke under warranty and Tesla replaced it for you.

Tesla maintenance schedule is fake because it minimizes the basic maintenance of any kind, other than replacing cabin air filter. For 120K miles. Really? Anyone buys that?
And then it is used by the above mentioned "source" to understate the cost of maintaining a Tesla.
Warranty work has nothing to do with this.

Other manufacturers require you to break in the engine and then make an appointment so that they can test the engine fluids,

This is 100% laughable FUD.
No-one does that. Ever.
Not even racing teams test engine fluids after break-in.

then every several thousand miles come in again to have them ask you if you want various unneeded parts changed and out of fear of breaking your expensive new vehicle you say 'yes' to cover their lack of profit from the initial sale of the car.

This is FUD as well.
Where are you getting this stuff?

Give me a Tesla any day, so glad to be out of that rat race

Common, man. We are all Tesla enthusiasts here.
Just don't cross the line into the embarrassing FUD territory!

a

 

[israndy]

Look at all those other Tesla drivers coming to your defense!!

My last car was a 2013 Volvo, and after 1000 miles they had me come in to get a fluids sample. My car before that was a 2000 Honda, can't remember if they did the same. It was 20 years ago, lab capabilities have changed.

All of my cars other than the Tesla have required regular oil changes, during which I would be asked if I wanted to change the radiator fluid today, how about the tranny fluid? Perhaps wiper blades while you are here? Where do you go for oil changes that do not engage in this attempt to grab your money? Certainly NOT the dealership.

This thread is about decreasing FUD, and you accuse me of encouraging it, but all I am saying is that my Tesla at 136,000 miles has been nothing but rock solid, kinda the OPPOSITE of FUD ( Confidence, Certainty, and Clarity). Also saying that there is no regular scheduled maintenance to this point, also not FUD, even if you have trouble believing it, this is why I figure you must have another agenda.

 

[webbbcam]

Look at all those other Tesla drivers coming to your defense!!

My last car was a 2013 Volvo, and after 1000 miles they had me come in to get a fluids sample. My car before that was a 2000 Honda, can't remember if they did the same. It was 20 years ago, lab capabilities have changed.

All of my cars other than the Tesla have required regular oil changes, during which I would be asked if I wanted to change the radiator fluid today, how about the tranny fluid? Perhaps wiper blades while you are here? Where do you go for oil changes that do not engage in this attempt to grab your money? Certainly NOT the dealership.

This thread is about decreasing FUD, and you accuse me of encouraging it, but all I am saying is that my Tesla at 136,000 miles has been nothing but rock solid, kinda the OPPOSITE of FUD ( Confidence, Certainty, and Clarity). Also saying that there is no regular scheduled maintenance to this point, also not FUD, even if you have trouble believing it, this is why I figure you must have another agenda.

Israndy is spot on
afadeev …..less so

Single data point:

My 2015 MS 85D has 167,000 miles and in nearly 8 years has never left me stranded.

replaced: 3 door handles (2 under warranty), passenger air bag(warranty—Takata) power steering bolts (warranty), HV battery heater, daughter card for the memory issues of the big screen, 12v battery, one set of summer tires and second set of Blizacs this winter……..that’s it!!!!

Still on my original brake pads!
My main battery has only lost about 7% capacity.


I’ve never had a more reliable car ever and I’ve owned lots including Fords, chevys, Subarus,Nissans, Lincolns,Olds, Pontiacs and Ramblers.

FUD is FUD. Please stop

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1616229607845560322

 

[israndy]

There was a time when Autoblog Green was a good place to go for EV news, seems to have been taken over:

Elon Musk oversaw video that exaggerated Tesla self-driving capabilities

 

[israndy]

Tesla’s Problems Go Way Beyond Elon Musk

Everything the article says is like "Tesla's brand in 2022 jumped to $48 billion, up 32 percent from 2021 but well short of its 183 percent growth between 2020 and 2021." Or saying that their market share has gone down from years ago when NO ONE ELSE was making EVs, but glossing over how many more units they are building y/y. The article is almost silly with all the references to Tesla's successes and then saying But next year they probably won't be as successful.

Doesn't say anything like Gee, maybe they should open more service centers or a NA PR department.

And then goes on to say how Musk is losing his following, what's the title of the article again?

 

[israndy]

This guy is a new Dr. doom. While I do like some of his stuff...this one was wrong on many levels.

Helping to fight the FUD with his own video:

 

[Discoducky]

Sam covers this FUD in the video below and then I just did a search that came up with this...amazing

 

[willow_hiller]

Just a $100 charity bet is enough to quiet a vocal spreader of FUD. This guy was proclaiming the Cybertruck would never see the light of day, but since Ryan proposed the bet, he's been silent. Not even willing to put charity money where his mouth is:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1621584878344245248

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1621738344827985922

 

[afadeev]

This guy is a new Dr. doom. While I do like some of his stuff...this one was wrong on many levels.

Really? Like what?
I'm not prepared to defend him (I don't have the facts), but this knee-jerk dismissal smacks of shallowness.
If you find something factually wrong with his thesis, please do elaborate. So that we can have an informative discussion here.

It's wild that a person can just say things on YT video and people will believe them. EV's have a frame so they are worse than gas cars!

That wasn't his point, at all.
His theory is that there are not enough raw materials to support global transition to EVs during the next 1-3 decades, and that there are more green-friendly ways of deploying limited supply of these resources (into wind turbines and solar panels) instead of EVs. Specifically, he claims we are constrained by availability of:

• silicone
• lithium (need 10x of known reserves)
• graphite (need 10x of known reserves)
• copper (need 2x of known reserves)
• zinc (need 2x of known reserves)
• chromium (need 4x of known reserves)
• molybdenum (need 4x of known reserves)

And that the world has never managed to achieve 2x production of any raw resources within any given decade, in the past.
I don't know if the above #s are exactly accurate (someone do please fact check), but that's the crux of dude's concern has an obvious relevance.
I've heard similar arguments from other sources, though not those exact #s.
If you think his assumptions or conclusion are wrong, please share facts.

Helping to fight the FUD with his own video:

Sadly, not.
All this dummy (by his own admission) does is picks linguistic battles, at the extreme margins of irrelevance, and avoids dealing with the meat of the stated problem.
And then he attempts to "discredit" Zeihan's observation about constraints on key raw materials by ... siting increases in the rate of productions of cell phones and plastics. Really?

Which is a pretty apropos analogy for this entire thread, isn't it?

Cheers,
a

 

[israndy]

Quoting the video again, isn't defending him. If he is right on some facts please bring them forth, like when he is wrong on facts others have quoted relevant details. The guy said NEVER has anything doubled production and the argument was Here are a few examples when it did happen. Dismissing those arguments because they were NOT examples of EVs doubling is just nonsense, your guy said 'never', but he was wrong.

He appears to have a following and I can understand having a guy you follow be wrong and not wanting to admit it, have you seen Elon recently?

 

[afadeev]

Quoting the video again, isn't defending him. If he is right on some facts please bring them forth,

I don't see any evidence to dispute Zeihan's claim that we have a limited and insufficient quantity of key raw materials (lithium, copper, etc) to go 100% EV adoption over the next few decades. I saw similar reports from other sources, though haven't had time to verify any of the exact #s sited. I don't do minerals extraction for a living, and hope that someone more deeply involved in that industry will setup up and comment if they see anything wrong with that argument.

This seams to be a sour point with some in the "EV or bust" community.
Not sure why.
It's seams to be a valid concern.

The guy said NEVER has anything doubled production and the argument was Here are a few examples when it did happen.

It was pretty obvious Zeihan was talking about raw materials. Specifically, those of which we don't have enough for massive EV adoption.
The dummy made multiple lame attempts to discredit that claim by citing increases in cell phone and plastics productions. Which are entirely besides the point.

There were a lot of strawman arguments made in dummy's video. I won't waste anyone time rehashing them.

He appears to have a following and I can understand having a guy you follow be wrong and not wanting to admit it, have you seen Elon recently?

I actually don't follow Zeihan, though I've heard of him. He used to work for Stratfor, which is an interesting organization.
I have seen report of Elon walking out of a courtroom recently. What does that have to do with anything?