Here's why the 3 isn't a mainstream "affordable" car

[dreamingof3]

More on Camry Vs. Model 3 just to add some facts and ask some questions

1. The 2018 Camry SE comes with 18 inch alloy wheels standard
2. Toyota safety sense is very appealing to many buyers. Does the model 3 give you any safety features standard without purchasing the 5k base auto pilot package? I'm guessing Tesla will enable the base safety features without purchasing the 5k package?
3. The Toyota dealer near me has a 2018 Camry Se listed for 25,113. I believe the SE is the most comparable trim level to the base Model
4. I see a compelling argument for the base 3 vs the Camry only if you will receive the federal tax credit bringing your base 3 cost down to 27,500
5. The 27,500 price for a 3 would take you roughly 50,000 miles of driving to break even with fuel cost on Camry excluding oil changes

With this in mind I will still likely buy the 3 but only the base model- with those hideous aero wheels. Why? Because I will likely receive the tax credit and it will effectively knock off 21% of my purchase price.

 

[jbcarioca]

Um...autopilot?

A clarification: AIl aircraft autopilots have no inherent implication about level of autonomy implied. They range from 'wing levelers' - (more or less equivalent to lane keeping.) to full-authority automatic landing systems that are fairly similar to level 3, because they always require pilot supervision.

There is no equivalent of level 5 existing in manned aircraft today, even in drones and spacecraft there is active human continuous monitoring/management.

So Tesla Autopilot is a perfect name. The name itself makes clear that full autonomy does not now exist. They'll need a new name for level 5, Autopilot is not suitable.

​

 

[JeffK]

The 2018 Camry SE

Again, if it's not a V6 it's not even close to comparable.

You can put aftermarket 18s on a $12,000 Nissan Versa and still be way cheaper than a Camry.

 

[dsvick]

Even with a gov credit that car is now 27,500 7,000 more than a 2017 Camry SE on clearance

So you're comparing what is, essentially, last years model that is now on clearance to this years current model?

Not at all- I'm taking a proven top seller with amazing reliability history and comparing it to a volume wanna be. And Tesla is trying to be in the 500k a year sales category w the 3 so why not compare it to a real life real volume competitor?

A "real life real volume competitor" is not last years model being sold on clearance. It would be this years most comparable model with comparable features. Why don't you try a real comparison rather than one you cherry picked to support your argument? It'll make you look a lot less disingenuous.

 

[dreamingof3]

Again, if it's not a V6 it's not even close to comparable.

You can put aftermarket 18s on a $12,000 Nissan Versa and still be way cheaper than a Camry.

Lol----I actually had a nissan versa at one point but it only had 17" aftermarket wheels

 

[dreamingof3]

A "real life real volume competitor" is not last years model being sold on clearance. It would be this years most comparable model with comparable features. Why don't you try a real comparison rather than one you cherry picked to support your argument? It'll make you look a lot less disingenuous.

I used a 2018 Camry SE which is the new model and it's trim level is very similar to the base Model 3. I don't see that as cherry picking at all. Someone said you can't even get 18 inch wheels on a Camry - so guess they were wrong.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I used a 2018 Camry SE which is the new model and it's trim level is very similar to the base Model 3. I don't see that as cherry picking at all. Someone said you can't even get 18 inch wheels on a Camry - so guess they were wrong.

Are you an employee of Toyota?


Seriously, people have spent 9 pages in this thread trying to convince you to stop comparing apples and turds.

A Camry is what you buy when you have zero interest in a car as an enjoyable possession. A Camry basically screams to the world that you either have no taste, no creativity, or you have given up.

So which is it with you?

 

[dreamingof3]

Are you an employee of Toyota?


Seriously, people have spent 9 pages in this thread trying to convince you to stop comparing apples and turds.

A Camry is what you buy when you have zero interest in a car as an enjoyable possession. A Camry basically screams to the world that you either have no taste, no creativity, or you have given up.

So which is it with you?

lol you are a funny guy-I guess 10 million people have given up and have no taste!

 

[ModelNforNerd]

lol you are a funny guy-I guess 10 million people have given up and have no taste!

Yes. Camrys are ugly beige appliances. If 10 million people drank turpentine this morning, would you?

 

[dsvick]

I used a 2018 Camry SE which is the new model and it's trim level is very similar to the base Model 3. I don't see that as cherry picking at all.

Your first mention of the 2018 model was literally less than hour ago. Up until then you have repeatedly said "2017" and "on clearance". IF you want to make a reasonable comparison and have people actually read it and consider it on it merits then you need to make an effort to do so fairly and to list out the features of both. Until you do that you may as well be comparing it to a 1980s Yugo for all the credibility you have.

 

[jelloslug]

lol you are a funny guy-I guess 10 million people have given up and have no taste!

Ford sold about 10 million Taurus since they first came out. I guess those cars are the pinnacle of automotive design and engineering of their time by your standards also.

 

[grashelm]

Can a moderator please put this thread out of its misery?

 

[Barklikeadog]

A clarification: AIl aircraft autopilots have no inherent implication about level of autonomy implied. They range from 'wing levelers' - (more or less equivalent to lane keeping.) to full-authority automatic landing systems that are fairly similar to level 3, because they always require pilot supervision.

There is no equivalent of level 5 existing in manned aircraft today, even in drones and spacecraft there is active human continuous monitoring/management.

So Tesla Autopilot is a perfect name. The name itself makes clear that full autonomy does not now exist. They'll need a new name for level 5, Autopilot is not suitable.

​

I hate to butt into all of this fine arguing, but isn't Tesla selling 'full self driving capability' now? The asterisk they give is that they are simply waiting for regulations and governments to allow it.

Full Self-Driving Capability
Build upon Enhanced Autopilot and order Full Self-Driving Capability on your Tesla. This doubles the number of active cameras from four to eight, enabling full self-driving in almost all circumstances, at what we believe will be a probability of safety at least twice as good as the average human driver. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle.

All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you.

Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available, as this is highly dependent on local regulatory approval. Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year.

 

[N5329K]

I used to own a turquoise Mercury Monterey. Why doesn't the Model 3 have proper fins???? And turquoise as a paint option????
I'm so betrayed.
Robin

 

[siggyfreud]

OMG OP go buy the Camry already. Seriously. If you're that freaking torn between the model 3 and a Toyota Camry then the 3 just isn't your bag. You're completely glossing over the biggest difference, and that's the ICE vs Electric comparison. The mere fact that you're making this comparison tells me the car isn't a good fit for you. If you're looking for a reasonable entry level luxury car there are a dozen out there that will give you what you want. An electric drivetrain appears to be low on your priority list given how this conversation has gone so why continue to subject everyone to this? At this point you're coming across as a troll.

I'm out of this thread now. I suggest we all leave it and let it die of natural causes.

 

[DR61]

This thread is hilarious. I had no idea the Camry V-6 used grid electricity for propulsion. Oh, it doesn't? Discussion over.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

This thread is hilarious. I had no idea the Camry V-6 used grid electricity for propulsion. Oh, it doesn't? Discussion over.

But it's not over......I have a sense we're all taking out the frustrations of our long wait out on the OP.....and it's actually a little fun.

 

[Skotty]

It's just a little unreasonable to expect the 3 to match the Happy Meal of the McDonalds of cars at this point. Tesla is still a growing enterprise that is having to work a lot harder than a company like Toyota (growing service centers, stores, a charging network, capacity growth rate, pioneering electric drive in a modern auto, etc).

I think it's fair to look at where further improvements can be made and where some traditional ICE cars still have advantages, but not so fair if you mean to paint Tesla generally in a negative light for the 3. Talk about any perceived/potential shortfalls or areas for improvement on the 3, but in an overall positive way, and I think you'll have the right approach.

BTW, you can't look at the loaded price and complain really. I've seen loaded Mustang's on a Ford lot listed at over $70K. Limited production special model, but still.

 

[Quick2Judge]

400K+ reservations = mass market. Period.

 

[jbcarioca]

lol you are a funny guy-I guess 10 million people have given up and have no taste!

Yep