Hill Hold Function

[wycolo]

> Plus I assume most people will still use the brake when stopped on a hill (I certainly do in an automatic), and the hill hold only kicks in for the couple seconds it takes to move your foot to the accelerator. [gregincal]

Two Foot Operation: One foot = GO; Other foot=No GO. How can you go wrong with that? Listen to the Tesla Music (2 foot chimes). Rock n Roll. 99.9+% of drivers have 2 legs & 2 feet (true fact).
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[ElSupreme]

Two Foot Operation: One foot = GO; Other foot=No GO. How can you go wrong with that? Listen to the Tesla Music (2 foot chimes). Rock n Roll. 99.9+% of drivers have 2 legs & 2 feet (true fact).
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The only problem with that is almost daily I see someone driving "GO" and "No GO" at the same time around Atlanta. I am not suprised by this, as there are hills, and steep hills, all over. I guess the Tesla screams at you if you do both, so maybe.

But you really aren't rolling that far back, and cars aren't really all that close to you. A little roll back isn't really a big deal.

It is always painful to watch someone going from 0-50 with their brake lights lit the whole way.

 

[jerry33]

> Two Foot Operation: One foot = GO; Other foot=No GO. How can you go wrong with that? Listen to the Tesla Music (2 foot chimes). Rock n Roll. 99.9+% of drivers have 2 legs & 2 feet (true fact).
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Doesn't work with cars such as the Model S because brake override disengages the acceleration. You'll not go anywhere if both are pressed at once, so if you're using the two foot method, that's what will happen at least some of the time. (Murphy says this will happen when it's the worst time.)

In my opinion, except for some types of on-track racing, two foot driving is bad cess. With the Model S, the savings in reaction time is zero because regen braking kicks in as soon as you lift your foot, so there just isn't any advantage.

 

[brianman]

Doesn't work with cars such as the Model S

Also the car yells at you for trying this. And it yells at you in the same style as "your car needs service" which is an extra level of undesirable.

 

[TXjak]

It seems like it should be easy enough to program the car:

while ( (gear == drive) & ( mph < 0) ) { mph += small_amount };

It might yield a little bit of forward creep, but a SMOP, as they say. :wink:

(small matter of programming)

 

[brianman]

In situations where I recall being frustrated at the missing feature, the consumption to simulate it was always more like 1-3 kW.

Funny timing. Tonite on a hill I had a chance to try it out again. Since the consumption arc is non-linear it's a bit difficult to be precise but I'm pretty sure it was in the 3-6 kW range to hold position. So on a steep hill 10 kW might not be all that unusual.

 

[Doug Martoccia]

I really need hill hold! I hope it can be pushed as a software update.

 

[wycolo]

I really need hill hold! I hope it can be pushed as a software update.

Guessing you frequent hilly locales like many of the old PCH towns. Agreed, you need a hill hold solution to avoid energy waste. Why not practice & master '2 foot operation'? When you need to stop on a steep hill just use your left foot, keeping right foot in position over acel pedal. Then you can seamlessly launch when the light turns green/whatever. If you have never, or for a long time haven't, driven a stick shift vehicle, then you need to practice this manouver since it requires grey matter (re)programming. For stick-shift drivers it should be a 'natural'.

2-foot operation is ONLY for 'close negotiation' situations, not for normal driving (sheesh). Sure, the Tesla chimes come on as soon as both pedals are slightly pressed but this is just a gentle reminder that you are in a *special* mode. The chimes do not modify the performance of the car in any way that I've discovered such as TC on/off. But I do this only on level ground. Don't think I've had to deal with any steep hill stopping in the 5k miles so far. If TC kicks in, that means you are pressing both pedals too much simultaneously. If you just hold feet over their respective pedals then TC should not interfere.
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[zeron]

[..] If you have never, or for a long time haven't, driven a stick shift vehicle, then you need to practice this manouver since it requires grey matter (re)programming. For stick-shift drivers it should be a 'natural'.

Note that this is considerably harder still in an ICE with stick than the Tesla. If you don't time it right or aren't very careful with the pedals, you risk stalling the engine. Try that with an electric drivetrain

 

[Blurry_Eyed]

We have 5.9 installed on our car now and hill hold works great, but my wife noticed today that it doesn't seem to work in reverse. Any thoughts out there as to whether it would be beneficial or detrimental for the hill hold to work while in reverse?

The beneficial case would be when you are backing out of a parking space on a steep hill, the car won't roll down the hill when you move from the brake to the accelerator pedal. But the detrimental case under the same circumstances might be that you want gravity to roll you down the hill a bit while you are maneuvering into the space on the hill (basically once you are lined up in the spot, just using the brake to modulate your position, rather than having to go back and forth between the accelerator and brake to do so).

Curious as to what people might think about having hill hold engaged while in reverse.

 

[ecarfan]

I also noted that Hill Assist doesn't work in reverse but I'm okay with that. Perhaps in the future they can implement a control allowing the user to decide if it should work in reverse or not.

 

[brianman]

RE: the thread title

There is no "Hill Hold" function in Model S, so is this a speculation thread about future firmware possibilities?

 

[Forty Creek]

RE: the thread title

There is no "Hill Hold" function in Model S, so is this a speculation thread about future firmware possibilities?

Seems it was just added with 5.9

 

[liuping]

Seems it was just added with 5.9

I think he's pointing out that there is only Hill Assist, not Hill Hold.

Hill Assist keeps the brake on for 1 second after you stop pressing it, enough time to move your foot to the accelerator without rolling back.
Hill Hold keeps the car from rolling back indefinitely, until the accelerator is pressed.

 

[Blurry_Eyed]

Hill Assist is a more proper semantic term than Hill Hold with the way Tesla has implemented their solution, but I thought I would piggy back on the Hill Hold thread since it already existed. I contemplated posting in the 5.9 firmware thread, but I believe this particular issue could span multiple firmware updates.

I think for discussion purposes, now that this is clarified a bit that the Tesla implementation of what people might think of as 'Hill Hold' is really a 'Hill Assist' where once you release your foot off the brake, there is about a 1 second delay between the releasing of your foot off the brake and the brakes actually disengaging (unless you quickly go to the accelerator pedal and in that case the brakes release as soon as it receive accelerator pedal input - although I haven't actually tested this myself, so maybe I'm making a bad assumption here).

The question I posed does seem worth pondering. I'm on the fence as to whether or not having 'Hill Assist' function in reverse is a good thing or not, so perhaps the suggestion to have the option to engage it or not in reverse would be good. I'll have to experiment a bit with parking on a hill in both drive and reverse to get some personal data to see how 'Hill Assist' impacts that procedure.

 

[brianman]

One of the problems with using the wrong naming is that it leads to problems with subsequent discussion.

For your consideration:

Tesla's Hill Hold functionality doesn't do what I want.

Tesla hasn't implemented Hill Hold. They implemented Hill Assist and its behavior is documented in the release notes. Is the car's behavior not matching the release notes?

I didn't read them. Hold on. Ok, yah the car seems to be working as described.

Do you think Hill Assist is an incorrect name for such functionality?

No it's about right.

So all good?

No. I still want Hill Hold.

Ah, ok. Please send an email to [email protected] giving them (a) your thoughts on if Hill Assist is working properly and/or if you have recommended improvements to it and (b) the additional piece of information that you still want Hill Hold (and maybe explain why).

Maybe I should just print cards and hand them out at Connect.

 

[Forty Creek]

I think he's pointing out that there is only Hill Assist, not Hill Hold.

Hill Assist keeps the brake on for 1 second after you stop pressing it, enough time to move your foot to the accelerator without rolling back.
Hill Hold keeps the car from rolling back indefinitely, until the accelerator is pressed.

Thanks for explaining the difference. I'm still waiting for the update so am just going by comments on the forum.

 

[strider]

IIRC in the release notes it said that Hill Assist would work in either direction.

 

[Chipper]

IIRC in the release notes it said that Hill Assist would work in either direction.

I think you are correct Strider, but it "ASSISTS" and holds for forward and backward drift, but I think the point is it will not do so if the shift lever says you are in reverse gear. Now SOME may take exception to the use of "gear" since technically Tesla does not really have gears...

 

[nolngrgrsngslde]

I think you are correct Strider, but it "ASSISTS" and holds for forward and backward drift, but I think the point is it will not do so if the shift lever says you are in reverse gear. Now SOME may take exception to the use of "gear" since technically Tesla does not really have gears...

If you are facing downhill and the lever is in reverse, the breaks will hold you for one second.

if you are facing uphill and lever is in Drive, the breaks will hold you for one second.