Home Charge Points Discussion and Suggestions [megathread]

[MrBadger]

has anyone gone down the commando route?

It won't be significantly cheaper if you charge your car outside and its fitted legally to regulations - there is a thread about the cost difference. A commando requires more ancillary safety devices that are often fitted in many charge points. So the charge point may be cheaper, but you need £££'s more in external wiring.

 

[OliLondon]

Mind me asking how much that was?

seems I am being charged for my postcode at the minute

has anyone gone down the commando route?

Sure, I paid £590 for a tethered 7kw charger with installation (that included the gov grant) - happy with the job they have done and the charger looks neat at the front of the house

 

[Josh.silvs]

Sure, I paid £590 for a tethered 7kw charger with installation (that included the gov grant) - happy with the job they have done and the charger looks neat at the front of the house

Wtf!!! I’m getting quotes of 1200.

Do you have their details?

 

[OliLondon]

Wtf!!! I’m getting quotes of 1200.

Do you have their details?

Wow £1200 is crazy! No way I would have paid that, I just booked and paid through their website: Electric Vehicle Charging Solutions | Pod Point and they sorted out the government grant etc once I had filled out forms

 

[Jez_GB]

Sure, I paid £590 for a tethered 7kw charger with installation (that included the gov grant) - happy with the job they have done and the charger looks neat at the front of the house

Pod Point charged me £385 for the same unit in Dec 2019!

Wow £1200 is crazy! No way I would have paid that, I just booked and paid through their website: Electric Vehicle Charging Solutions | Pod Point and they sorted out the government grant etc once I had filled out forms

Same, all sorted online.

 

[Puzuk]

I’ve had a quote for £670 for a untethered Sync EV installation. It’s a 20metre slightly complicated one so £1200 quid is either a really complicated one or they’re taking the mick!

Wow £1200 is crazy! No way I would have paid that, I just booked and paid through their website: Electric Vehicle Charging Solutions | Pod Point and they sorted out the government grant etc once I had filled out forms

d a

 

[RedMod3]

Should you receive an electrical certificate after a home charge point installation? I've not had one and my installation was last month.

 

[Jez_GB]

Should you receive an electrical certificate after a home charge point installation? I've not had one and my installation was last month.

Yes, iirc mine took few weeks to come through.... you could give em a call to make sure they’ve not forgotten you.

 

[DigbyChicken]

I've had a quote from Wessex EcoEnergy of £686.20 (including the OLEV grant) to install a 32A/7kw Pod Point Solo. Sound about right?

The company are based in Dorchester (only about 20 miles away) and we had a pretty good chat on the phone last week. I partly got onto them because I also wanted an even more rough-and-ready quote for solar on the garage roof and thus was wondering about a Zappi. Long story short, it's now looking like we're going to remove the eight-year-old tethered (type 1) Chargemaster (British Gas/Polar) 16A/3.7kW unit at the front of the house and replace it with the Pod Point. The new unit will have to charge both cars.

Interestingly, the chap told me they pretty much only install Pod Points and Zappis now, because both have the earthing built-in.

So Wessex EcoEnergy have gone quiet. Same thing happened with Evergreen Renewable Energy (Lyme Regis). Hmm...

Anyway, I remembered an email from the fleet company, suggesting I take a look at going to Pod Point directly. And the quote from the web page (inc. OLEV grant) was only £549 - a (potential) saving of over £100, so not to be sneezed at. I was just about to bite the bullet when I noticed, under the OLEV grant bit, it says, "In order to claim the OLEV grant for a second charge point you must have 2 eligible vehicles concurrently for at least 6 months registered to the property. Valid documentation will be required."

...which is a problem, as we're not getting the M3 until (say) the end of June, and we already have a Chargemaster (British Gas/Polar) 16A/3.7kW unit *with a tethered type 1 connector* for our Nissan Leaf. The Chargemaster unit is at the front of the house (a very short run from the consumer unit by the front door) and was installed (for free) way back in July 2013. Naturally we were hoping to swap this out for 32A/7.2kW unit with a type 2 socket, which could then charge either car as needed. (We did briefly entertain the idea of having a second charger installed on the garage at the back of the house - we have a 100A main fuse - but let's just say, logistics killed that idea stone dead.)

Re the OLEV grant strictures, does this sound about right? Do you agree with me that my best (or certainly cheapest) bet now is to buy a Pod Point 32A untethered charger ourselves, and pay for our local sparky to install it? (He's installed chargers before; the only thing he can't do is apply for the OLEV grant, which it sounds like we wouldn't get anyway.) I'm assuming it would be pretty much a straight swap (unless the wiring 'feed' would need upgrading to cover the jump from 16A to 32A...?), though I'm assuming the DNO would have to be informed?

The absolute cheapest alternative would be to charge the Tesla through a 3-pin plugged into the garage. (I guess it would only take a day or two to charge it up to 80%...!) Luckily there's a Supercharger on my (occasional) commute route, and some supermarkets in town... Would this be safe, at least until we get a new charger installed?

Many thanks.

 

[MrBadger]

The absolute cheapest alternative would be to charge the Tesla through a 3-pin plugged into the garage. (I guess it would only take a day or two to charge it up to 80%...!) Luckily there's a Supercharger on my (occasional) commute route, and some supermarkets in town... Would this be safe, at least until we get a new charger installed?

Apart from a few months when we had no charging capabilities (3 pin kept blowing the RCD due to cumulative earth leakage), we have lived off 10A and the occasional top up elsewhere ever since.

It needs a bit of forward planning sometimes as I like to keep within the 4 hour Octopus Go window so we never let the SoC of charge get to the point where its not going to need extended charge periods. Our current situation is a couple of days at 60+ mile trips (4 nights of up to 4 hours to recoup the charge) then various ad-hoc trips. The occasional top ups are always related to longer trips and/or overnight stays away from power.

It would be nice to have a faster hookup, but for us, 10A and a 4 hour Go window works well for us 99% of the time. ymmv.

 

[DigbyChicken]

Apart from a few months when we had no charging capabilities (3 pin kept blowing the RCD due to cumulative earth leakage), we have lived off 10A and the occasional top up elsewhere ever since.

It needs a bit of forward planning sometimes as I like to keep within the 4 hour Octopus Go window so we never let the SoC of charge get to the point where its not going to need extended charge periods. Our current situation is a couple of days at 60+ mile trips (4 nights of up to 4 hours to recoup the charge) then various ad-hoc trips. The occasional top ups are always related to longer trips and/or overnight stays away from power.

It would be nice to have a faster hookup, but for us, 10A and a 4 hour Go window works well for us 99% of the time. ymmv.

That's great to know. Many thanks! Though we're on an EV tariff (Ovo; looking to maybe switch to Octopus when we're next up for renewal), we don't have Economy7 or variable rates, which will at least keep things simple...

The only problem that I can see is that the garage doesn't have a dedicated feed from the main/new/RCD-protected consumer unit (which is why we abandoned the idea of putting a charger there). Instead the garage lights and sockets run off the ground floor socket ring. I'm going to ask about putting a mini consumer unit or something in there, so that at least something tripping in the garage doesn't take the whole of the ground floor out. (I'm no electrician, so please excuse any ignorance in my posts!)

 

[RedMod3]

Yes, iirc mine took few weeks to come through.... you could give em a call to make sure they’ve not forgotten you.

Thank you.

 

[vardhanr]

I have BP Chargemaster installed at home in Feb 2020 with a standard 30A RCD in the CU and an earth rod. Just been looking thru this thread and see that a Type B RCD should have been installed after regulations changed.
I contacted BP and got the following response - any thoughts?

"In this case in particular I’d like to bring to your attention regulation: 722.531.2.101 which I’ve copied in below so you and your electrician can note but I’m sure your electrician has a copy of already:

722.531.2.101: Except for circuits using the protective measure of electrical separation, each charging point shall be protected by its own RCD of at least Type A, having a rated residual operating current not exceeding 30 mA.
Each charging point incorporating a socket-outlet or vehicle connector complying with the BS EN 62196 series, protective measures against DC fault current shall be taken, except where provided by the EV charging equipment.
The appropriate measures, for each connection point, shall be as follows:

• RCD Type B; or
• RCD Type A and appropriate equipment that provides disconnection of the supply in case of DC fault current above 6 mA

RCDs shall comply with one of the following standards: BS EN 61008-1, BS EN 61009-1, BS EN 60947-2 or BS EM 62423.

So although a Type B RCDs can be used to protect an EV charger not all manufactures make them for their boards, so they are not widely used by many EV installers as there is a better and more widely available option the Type A RCD.

 

[Adopado]

I have BP Chargemaster installed at home in Feb 2020 with a standard 30A RCD in the CU and an earth rod. Just been looking thru this thread and see that a Type B RCD should have been installed after regulations changed.
I contacted BP and got the following response - any thoughts?

"In this case in particular I’d like to bring to your attention regulation: 722.531.2.101 which I’ve copied in below so you and your electrician can note but I’m sure your electrician has a copy of already:

722.531.2.101: Except for circuits using the protective measure of electrical separation, each charging point shall be protected by its own RCD of at least Type A, having a rated residual operating current not exceeding 30 mA.
Each charging point incorporating a socket-outlet or vehicle connector complying with the BS EN 62196 series, protective measures against DC fault current shall be taken, except where provided by the EV charging equipment.
The appropriate measures, for each connection point, shall be as follows:

• RCD Type B; or
• RCD Type A and appropriate equipment that provides disconnection of the supply in case of DC fault current above 6 mA

RCDs shall comply with one of the following standards: BS EN 61008-1, BS EN 61009-1, BS EN 60947-2 or BS EM 62423.

So although a Type B RCDs can be used to protect an EV charger not all manufactures make them for their boards, so they are not widely used by many EV installers as there is a better and more widely available option the Type A RCD.

We used to have our own resident expert (@Glan gluaisne ) to respond to these specific queries. If you search his past contributions you will see all these aspects covered. There is added confusion because different charge points incorporate some of the features within their own circuitry and others don't. This means that the installer may or may not require to fit all the items separately. (This most commonly affects earthing requirements and the ability to sense DC ... some charge points take care of this themselves and some don't.)

 

[RedMod3]

I have BP Chargemaster installed at home in Feb 2020 with a standard 30A RCD in the CU and an earth rod. Just been looking thru this thread and see that a Type B RCD should have been installed after regulations changed.
I contacted BP and got the following response - any thoughts?
....................

I had my free BP Chargemaster unit installed in our garage last month, and they insisted that the protection was within the unit and that their cable should be wired direct to my consumer unit WITHOUT an RCD. In fact, because I had made provision and had had a Type B RCD installed (with a 30 amp breaker), they did not want to install it at all unless I removed my RCD.

In the end, I demanded that BP Chargemaster prove that the Type B RCD would cause problems, and they could not, so they just installed it to my Type B RCD.

After they went, I fitted a change-over switch so connect my Type B RCD to either my Tesla charger or the BP unit.

I'm still confused as my electrician and the BP Chargemaster electrician had many conflicting views.

 

[MrBadger]

I had my free BP Chargemaster unit installed in our garage last month, and they insisted that the protection was within the unit and that their cable should be wired direct to my consumer unit WITHOUT an RCD. In fact, because I had made provision and had had a Type B RCD installed (with a 30 amp breaker), they did not want to install it at all unless I removed my RCD.

So they wanted a potentially long wire from the consumer unit to the charge point that was totally unprotected? I thought there was a limit of 3m?

 

[YorkshireBrew]

I've just set my mum up with my old Chargemaster 7kW box. (eBay also seems to have plenty)

40MCB in the CU

Block drive made doing an earth rod properly a massive pain but the regs allow you to do without the rod if you have a device like this.

Garo G6EV40PME Consumer Unit, MCU Type A RCBO & PME Fault, EV Charger Compatible

Far cheaper solution that a Zappi with the benefit of leaving her drive in one piece.


N.B. a couple of people that know what they're on about

 

[RedMod3]

So they wanted a potentially long wire from the consumer unit to the charge point that was totally unprotected? I thought there was a limit of 3m?

Correct, although the length of unarmourmoured 6mm twin/earth was between 3m and 4m.

 

[RedMod3]

I've just set my mum up with my old Chargemaster 7kW box. (eBay also seems to have plenty)

40MCB in the CU

Block drive made doing an earth rod properly a massive pain but the regs allow you to do without the rod if you have a device like this.

Garo G6EV40PME Consumer Unit, MCU Type A RCBO & PME Fault, EV Charger Compatible

Far cheaper solution that a Zappi with the benefit of leaving her drive in one piece.

Interesting videos, but surely there would be danger if there is a PEN fault in a TN C S system with no EV charger?

 

[vardhanr]

I had my free BP Chargemaster unit installed in our garage last month, and they insisted that the protection was within the unit and that their cable should be wired direct to my consumer unit WITHOUT an RCD. In fact, because I had made provision and had had a Type B RCD installed (with a 30 amp breaker), they did not want to install it at all unless I removed my RCD.

In the end, I demanded that BP Chargemaster prove that the Type B RCD would cause problems, and they could not, so they just installed it to my Type B RCD.

After they went, I fitted a change-over switch so connect my Type B RCD to either my Tesla charger or the BP unit.

I'm still confused as my electrician and the BP Chargemaster electrician had many conflicting views.

I went back to BP. They confirmed that the extra protection required by the regs

I had my free BP Chargemaster unit installed in our garage last month, and they insisted that the protection was within the unit and that their cable should be wired direct to my consumer unit WITHOUT an RCD. In fact, because I had made provision and had had a Type B RCD installed (with a 30 amp breaker), they did not want to install it at all unless I removed my RCD.

In the end, I demanded that BP Chargemaster prove that the Type B RCD would cause problems, and they could not, so they just installed it to my Type B RCD.

After they went, I fitted a change-over switch so connect my Type B RCD to either my Tesla charger or the BP unit.

I'm still confused as my electrician and the BP Chargemaster electrician had many conflicting views.

I went back to BP who confirmed that "appropriate equipment that provides disconnection of the supply in case of DC fault current above 6 mA" is installed in their unit.