How important is home charger really?

[pjensen]

120V charging is not too bad in warm climates. Below freezing, you can't really preheat much at all on 120V, and even keeping the battery warm during charging will use a significant proportion of the available 1.4kW of power you can get from a standard outlet.

If you have the car in a garage, it should not matter.

This morning, here in north Texas, the temperature dropped to 20 degrees. The temperature in my unheated garage is 58 degrees. If you live in the cold north, having a garage might make a big difference.

 

[TheRFMan]

If you have the car in a garage, it should not matter.

If you have a *heated* garage, yes. I'm in the cold north of Eastern Canada, and my attached garage (but not built-in to the house) is not heated, and only the connecting wall between the garage and the house is insulated. If it's 0F outside, it'll be at most 10F in the garage (from the heat transfer from the connecting wall to the house). It's still a lot more cost-effective to install a 240V circuit to keep the car warm vs. heating the whole garage.

 

[holmgang]

We spent lots of time away from home, with friends and relatives where there is no reliable overnight charging. (urban living, steep driveway, too long for extension, whatever).

We have available: free 7kW down the street; free SC in the city; 240V-10A in one of the residences; free 11kW at common shopping center.

Despite all that, I find having to rely on those a huge PITA. Personally, if I didn't have dedicated home charger at main residence, the EV proposition is complete no-go.

 

[pjensen]

If you have a *heated* garage, yes. I'm in the cold north of Eastern Canada, and my attached garage (but not built-in to the house) is not heated, and only the connecting wall between the garage and the house is insulated. If it's 0F outside, it'll be at most 10F in the garage (from the heat transfer from the connecting wall to the house). It's still a lot more cost-effective to install a 240V circuit to keep the car warm vs. heating the whole garage.

My garage is attached to my house, so that is the reason it retains heat. Also it is insulated. We use natural gas for heating which is way cheaper than using electricity (even at our dirt cheap texas prices).

I would guess that heating your garage with natural gas would be cheaper (and do a better job) than using 240 volt electricity to the car.

But maybe you don't have natural gas heating?

 

[Spacep0d]

If you've experienced home charging it's hard not to have it if you have a way to install it where you live.

I plan to move to get a real charging solution since I cannot install anything over the humble trickle charger. I went through 11 electricians trying, and I included all possibilities...including various NEMA connections. Nope. Can't do squat beyond trickle charging which for me is about 4 mph. It's not terrible while I work from home but that won't last forever.

I am considering selling my car and investing most of it back into TSLA, but I still plan to move. My girlfriend also owns a Tesla Model 3 LR AWD so there are two of us to charge, and this will be more critical once things open back up (post pandemic, if one can dream of such things).

My brother's new place has a Tesla Wall Connector (TWC) and they don't own a Tesla. Charging there is 45 mph restored. Waking up to a full 'tank' is....in a word...amazing. His charger pumps out in one hour what mine takes 11.25 hours to achieve.

I know too much now. I'm like the guy who reserved an SR+ and made the mistake of driving an AWD LR or Performance.

To me, home charging is one of the biggest advantages of EVs, as others have written here.

 

[Saturday]

I cannot install anything over the humble trickle charger. I went through 11 electricians trying, and I included all possibilities...including various NEMA connections. Nope. Can't do squat beyond trickle charging.

why can’t you? If it’s a technical reason I’m curious

 

[Spacep0d]

why can’t you? If it’s a technical reason I’m curious

Well, this townhome was built in 1990, has a meager 60A panel which cannot be upgraded, the meter box isn't close to me (requires trenching and all that), and I can't get a single electrician to actually bid out what it would cost for this.

The bid would need to include architectural plans, pulled permits, running new line with trenching to my garage, and cooperation with the electric company. The HOA has given its approval (after some back and forth) but I think the whole job would be cost prohibitive, NOT that I can get anyone to actually bid the job.

The panel is also in the downstairs bathroom, and the garage is separated by a patio. Worst case for running lines anyway even if my panel weren't useless for EV charging. The dryer is upstairs and is already gas so no option to free up amperage there. It's as if someone said, 'Design the worst place for EV charging in 2020' and someone designed this place, lol. 1990 though....who knew?

I just want to move to a single-family home, vet the EV charging situation and enjoy the other benefits too such as no shared walls, a real driveway, an extra room, yard, etc.

There's one megathread about my electrical adventures here somewhere, with lots of great feedback and advice from the forum here. Ultimately, I decided it was just easier to move.....or sell my car, invest in TSLA during this pandemic, and prepare to make a down payment on a new place. Of course, THEN I found out whilst house-hunting that real estate agents don't even post pictures of the garage! For some reason, this is their culture, and it's insanely shortsighted. Yes, I had it out with one listing agent over this and finally got him to see the most obvious oversight ever.

So that's my story so far with EV charging.

 

[Rocky_H]

why can’t you? If it’s a technical reason I’m curious

It's eeevery kind of reason.

There's one megathread about my electrical adventures here somewhere, with lots of great feedback and advice from the forum here.

The first one, as well as these others:
Charging Concerns; Challenging Townhome Situation

Trickle Charging vs. Tesla Wall Connector! Opinions Wanted.

Model 3 Owners: Who Here Has Trickle-Charging Only/No Home Charging?

 

[cdswm3]

If you've experienced home charging it's hard not to have it if you have a way to install it where you live.

I plan to move to get a real charging solution since I cannot install anything over the humble trickle charger. I went through 11 electricians trying, and I included all possibilities...including various NEMA connections. Nope. Can't do squat beyond trickle charging which for me is about 4 mph. It's not terrible while I work from home but that won't last forever.

I am considering selling my car and investing most of it back into TSLA, but I still plan to move. My girlfriend also owns a Tesla Model 3 LR AWD so there are two of us to charge, and this will be more critical once things open back up (post pandemic, if one can dream of such things).

My brother's new place has a Tesla Wall Connector (TWC) and they don't own a Tesla. Charging there is 45 mph restored. Waking up to a full 'tank' is....in a word...amazing. His charger pumps out in one hour what mine takes 11.25 hours to achieve.

I know too much now. I'm like the guy who reserved an SR+ and made the mistake of driving an AWD LR or Performance.

To me, home charging is one of the biggest advantages of EVs, as others have written here.

Home charging is a necessary item to have for EV ownership. Could not imagine trying to own one without home charging.

 

[Spacep0d]

It's eeevery kind of reason.


The first one, as well as these others:
Charging Concerns; Challenging Townhome Situation

Trickle Charging vs. Tesla Wall Connector! Opinions Wanted.

Model 3 Owners: Who Here Has Trickle-Charging Only/No Home Charging?

Wow. Well hopefully it was entertaining. Sorry about all of the charging drama!

 

[gavine]

Home charging is a necessary item to have for EV ownership. Could not imagine trying to own one without home charging.

Charging at work can bridge the gap. Not as great as home-charging obviously, but still helpful.

 

[TheRFMan]

My garage is attached to my house, so that is the reason it retains heat. Also it is insulated. We use natural gas for heating which is way cheaper than using electricity (even at our dirt cheap texas prices).

I would guess that heating your garage with natural gas would be cheaper (and do a better job) than using 240 volt electricity to the car.

But maybe you don't have natural gas heating?

I actually do have natural gas heating in the house, but the logistics of getting a duct out to the garage would be difficult. All the ducting is run through the basement of the house and vents through the floor, but the basement doesn't extend under the garage. Running a duct through a wall separating the house and garage is against fire code, so I have few options left. If I wanted to heat the garage, I'd probably have to do it electrically.

Either way, heating garages is beyond the scope of the topic of this thread so I will leave it at that

 

[Rocky_H]

Wow. Well hopefully it was entertaining. Sorry about all of the charging drama!

It was great for making everyone else feel better about their own home charging options, knowing you're facing a near worst case scenario.

 

[jjrandorin]

Wow. Well hopefully it was entertaining. Sorry about all of the charging drama!

One thing is for sure, you exhausted all possibilities to look into it, lol. One thing it shows is that, even in the "EV mecca" that is california, there are still challenges for people in getting charging setup at home.

I also happen to agree with you about how, once you have had charging at home with an EV, it would be difficult to not have it. I have not one time had a situation where I "NEEDED" to charge at the speed my HPWC can provide, which is 48 amps which works out to be 44 miles charged an hour on my car. Never needed it.

What being able to charge that fast does do though, is enable someone to charge fully in a narrow window of time if needed for time of use electrical plans. It also completely, utterly removes any stress about "not having enough charge" unless you are traveling somewhere.

All the "what if i drive somewhere drive most of my charge out, get home, then need to go out again in an emergency?!?!?!" doomsday scenario's that tend to play through new EV drivers heads (and non EV owners heads) simply become a non issue. When I drive into work, which is 80 miles round trip from where I live, I use between 80 and 120 "tesla miles" depending on weather, etc. That just means it takes between 2 to roughly 3 hours for my car to "fill back up" when I get home.

That means by the time I get home, settle in and change clothes, and relax from my commute my car is already halfway charged from the range I used, if I want it to be. I schedule charging in the middle of the night because its easier on the grid (I am not on a TOU plan, grandfathered in with existing solar, blah blah).

Anyway, yeah, its great, and I love it, and I am not sorry in the slightest I can charge that fast... even though I will readily admit very few people "need" to charge at the max rate.

 

[Spacep0d]

Home charging is a necessary item to have for EV ownership. Could not imagine trying to own one without home charging.

It's kind of a big missing feature without it.

It was great for making everyone else feel better about their own home charging options, knowing you're facing a near worst case scenario.

Glad to help, lol!

 

[Spacep0d]

One thing is for sure, you exhausted all possibilities to look into it, lol. One thing it shows is that, even in the "EV mecca" that is california, there are still challenges for people in getting charging setup at home.

I also happen to agree with you about how, once you have had charging at home with an EV, it would be difficult to not have it. I have not one time had a situation where I "NEEDED" to charge at the speed my HPWC can provide, which is 48 amps which works out to be 44 miles charged an hour on my car. Never needed it.

What being able to charge that fast does do though, is enable someone to charge fully in a narrow window of time if needed for time of use electrical plans. It also completely, utterly removes any stress about "not having enough charge" unless you are traveling somewhere.

All the "what if i drive somewhere drive most of my charge out, get home, then need to go out again in an emergency?!?!?!" doomsday scenario's that tend to play through new EV drivers heads (and non EV owners heads) simply become a non issue. When I drive into work, which is 80 miles round trip from where I live, I use between 80 and 120 "tesla miles" depending on weather, etc. That just means it takes between 2 to roughly 3 hours for my car to "fill back up" when I get home.

That means by the time I get home, settle in and change clothes, and relax from my commute my car is already halfway charged from the range I used, if I want it to be. I schedule charging in the middle of the night because its easier on the grid (I am not on a TOU plan, grandfathered in with existing solar, blah blah).

Anyway, yeah, its great, and I love it, and I am not sorry in the slightest I can charge that fast... even though I will readily admit very few people "need" to charge at the max rate.

Right, and this is what I am after. It's one thing to be limited by your own choice and behavior (plugging in or not) and another to be limited by one's equipment or living situation when we know it's possible to upgrade.

There may also be times where we really do need that charging speed, such as when there's an emergency or we need to go somewhere a good distance away and on short notice. Or, we might just want to go to some sufficiently distant location and it's getting near closing time or there's otherwise no time to charge.

Either way, experiencing that 45 mph charge rate was like driving the Tesla for the first time. I KNOW TOO MUCH!

 

[Apone]

Sure, I could go to the mall every day to recharge my phone at the food court. I don't want to. Having to go somewhere makes me feel like going for gas. I started with trickle charging and it was anxiety for me even though the car never ran out of juice. After having the 14-50 put in, I never think about it. Always charged and can be recharged as fast as I will ever need it to be. My only worry now is power outages! We used to take the electronics outside and recharge them in the cars. A wide enough outage that takes out the mall and the other superchargers nearby would be interesting.

 

[JBT66]

I think it’s doable if you charge at home from time to time. It cost me $10 to upgrade my regular 15 amp home outlet to 20 amp. The breaker was already 20a. It’s a 50% speed boost getting me about 7 mph. It actually helps a lot.

 

[pjensen]

I actually do have natural gas heating in the house, but the logistics of getting a duct out to the garage would be difficult. All the ducting is run through the basement of the house and vents through the floor, but the basement doesn't extend under the garage. Running a duct through a wall separating the house and garage is against fire code, so I have few options left. If I wanted to heat the garage, I'd probably have to do it electrically.

Either way, heating garages is beyond the scope of the topic of this thread so I will leave it at that

I would run a gas line to the garage and install a small heater (50,000 btu). Cost would be around $400. Your car would never be cold.

This thread is about home charging (and what it takes to do it). Having a warm garage is an important consideration in choosing the charging current needed. I get by with just a standard 120 volt wall socket. It will easy handle 2 tesla cars. With an unheated garage in the subfreezing north, you will need 240 volts at 32 amps.

So the typical garage temperature will need to be considered.

 

[sleepy3p]

I relied on a 15amp 120v household outlet for my charging needs for half a year before buying a tesla charger. My work was only a few miles away so i made it work. Range anxiety is a real thing if you don't have a fast charger at home or work. Overnight Winter weather is a real killer to charging and not reliable. The household outlet will not charge your battery in the winter and will only keep it warm.

Imagine wasting an hour or two charging your car once a week, checking for free charging anywhere you park, and/or taking the ice vehicle when your EV doesn't have enough range. I felt my EV limited my freedom. I would have to ask my friends to use their outlet so I can add 7 miles into my car.

Owning an EV without a 240v outlet is very stressful. 90% Would not recommend.