TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
  1. TMC is currently READ ONLY.
    Click here for more info.

Charging Concerns; Challenging Townhome Situation

Discussion in 'Model 3: Battery & Charging' started by Spacep0d, Jan 19, 2020.

  1. Spacep0d

    Spacep0d Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    980
    Location:
    Santa Clarita, CA
    #1 Spacep0d, Jan 19, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
    Howdy Teslarati and fans!

    Okay, I have an unusual issue here with my charging setup as I plan my purchase of a Model 3 Long Range before March of 2020.

    I'm in a townhome which I co-own with my girlfriend, and the townhome was built in 1990 with obviously no plan in mind for EV charging. I've had electricians out to assess the place for upgrades, but it's looking bleak. Maybe one of you townhome/condo-dwelling Tesla owners has some ideas for workarounds. Maybe some of you are qualified electricians! :D

    1. I have what is technically an 'attached' garage, but there's a patio between my place and the garage. So, you exit the patio, open a small lockable door and the garage is there (a nice and deep two-car garage). All 120 volt or standard outlets inside.

    2. My unit has a pathetic 60a panel box with no headroom for a dedicated garage line, or that's what I've been told by some of the techs who checked out my place. Worse, the panel box is in the downstairs bathroom. So, even running cable from the box involves channeling it through the ceiling and then trenching around the patio cement and in to the garage. The builder of these units did not make things easy.

    3. My dryer is gas, so I can't either plug in there (of course it's upstairs), nor can I convert the dryer to gas to free up amperage because it's already gas.

    4. By all accounts, it looks like everything is maxed out with no future-proofing. This more than anything makes me want to upgrade to a single-family home, but that's another story.

    5. I know there's hardware which can switch power as it's available to an EVSE, such as the DCC Miser Switch;
    DCC Electric – Simplifying Electric Vehicle Charging In Condos

    Trouble is, I need HOA permission to even think about this. I've broached the subject with this but apparently I'm the *first* EV owner to approach them about charging issues or adjusting the infrastructure to facilitate garage charging. OF COURSE I AM. Naturally, they are slow and unmotivated, and probably all driving around in ICE vehicles, but they seem to understand that this trend isn't going anywhere and that the incidence of EV ownership is rising.

    6. Brute Force approach; I could just pay a pro to route some wiring to the garage and install a switch so that the L2 EVSE locks out the dryer in some fashion, or maybe I can lock out the dryer with a manual switch. Just spitballin' here. This wouldn't exactly be a permitted install, I'm guessing. It's not like I use the dryer all the time, but I know that this isn't really considered a workaround, unless there's hardware I can use without getting the HOA involved?

    7. I could just rely on Supercharging every time, which I don't mind doing, but how bad is this for the battery range and life? Does anyone out there currently do this with their Tesla? Certainly, not every Tesla owner has an amazing house with copious and accessible amperage, right? Some of you have to live in Townhomes, Condos, and Apartments. How do you charge your lovely Teslas?

    Any other ideas?

    Thanks!
     
    • Like x 1
  2. maketm

    maketm Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2018
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Washington
    How much do you drive every day/week? Any chance of charging at work?
     
    • Like x 2
  3. kftnyc

    kftnyc Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2020
    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Boston
    Keep in mind that Model 3 allows you to decide the max current draw when charging from a wall outlet. I live in an apartment where I was allowed to run an extension cord to the nearby data closet in the parking garage. I charge at 8A just to make sure I never trip a breaker that I can’t get to. That’s good for 3mph, so about 35-40 miles overnight.
     
    • Like x 2
  4. Feathermerchan

    Feathermerchan Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Messages:
    1,080
    Location:
    Euless, Tx
    Couple ideas. Your dryer is gas. It uses electricity though. Probly a 120V outlet, right so far? Is there also a 240V outlet in case you had an electric dryer? That would be a 30A 240V (double) breaker in your panel. If so, there is a breaker you could use.

    Second, Your outlets in the garage are 120V? Are they all on the same breaker? If not, you can combine the wiring so that you can get 240V and either 15 or 20A depending on what was run to your garage.

    FYI I charge my Model 3 at 240V 30A and have no problems staying charged. I'm retired but I have been putting miles on the car >10,000 pre year.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Helpful x 1
  5. eevee-fan

    eevee-fan Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,165
    Location:
    Nevada
    If you can find 2 distinct 120V in your unit, you can link the two 120V into a 240V with this device.

    EV Doubler using two 120v outlet
     
    • Disagree x 1
    • Love x 1
  6. Spacep0d

    Spacep0d Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    980
    Location:
    Santa Clarita, CA
    I should have mentioned this. I work from home *mostly*, so I do have the advantage of being able to top off at home fairly easily. But, I'd rather not put such a load on my 120v outlets for 12+ hours if I can avoid it. Plus, my girlfriend may want her own EV at some point.
     
  7. Spacep0d

    Spacep0d Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    980
    Location:
    Santa Clarita, CA
    Yeah this is not bad. I want to be as safe as possible, and I have a really good extension cable rated for trickle charging which I used with the LEAF S. I could get to full charge over a weekend, but near the end of the week I'd eventually have to quick charge as charging at night couldn't keep up. Thanks!
     
  8. Spacep0d

    Spacep0d Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    980
    Location:
    Santa Clarita, CA
    Hi Feathermerchan(t),

    Yes, I do believe I may have two distinct 120v outlets in the garage. I'll have to check for this with a tool (made for such purposes) or I'll have an assessment done by a pro. I do not have any 240v outlets anywhere but the fridge, and that's gotta stay plugged in as one would expect. The dryer only has regular wall outlets, though one of them is made for this type of thing (but it's definitely 120v).

    I do like the combined wiring idea. That might do the trick.
     
  9. Spacep0d

    Spacep0d Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    980
    Location:
    Santa Clarita, CA
    Wow, I've not seen anything like this before. Great link here. Thanks! I'll pursue this option first (low hanging fruit). First I'll have an electrician out to make a proper assessment in the garage and I can have it ready before I get the car. Thanks! This is the kind of info I needed, and all of the responses in this thread have been helpful!
     
  10. eprosenx

    eprosenx Active Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2018
    Messages:
    2,064
    Location:
    Beaverton, OR
    Can you post pictures of your electrical panel and all the stickers/labels on the panel or it’s door? I want to see what all you have in there.

    Also take pictures of the electrical meter and the circuit breaker / main disconnect outside or wherever it is.

    I am shocked that a 60a main would be allowed in 1990. Around here I don’t think anything less than 100a has been allowed in a very long time, and 125a is common.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
  11. Spacep0d

    Spacep0d Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    980
    Location:
    Santa Clarita, CA
    Believe me I was shocked too, and so were the electricians I had out to see what my options were. I was willing to pay good money to get a dedicated L2 charger in the garage, but most were thinking they couldn't do it. Yeah, I'll add my photos to this thread once I find 'em as the electricians I dealt with in early 2019 were asking for similar pictures. :D

    The Quick 220 is looking like the front-runner now if I really need L2 charging.
     
    • Like x 1
  12. David_Cary

    David_Cary Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,139
    Location:
    Cary, NC
    Did you get a quote to upgrade the panel?
    Are you considering solar in the future? Because if you are, the panel might need an upgrade at that point.
     
  13. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,387
    Location:
    NE Tennessee
    A 12 hour load is not a problem at all. Think of it as similar to adding a freezer or refrigerator in the garage. You would never think twice about that.
     
    • Like x 2
  14. Scrannel

    Scrannel Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2019
    Messages:
    135
    Location:
    Malibu, CA United States
    I am not an electrician, but it seems to me most refrigerators these days run on 120v (I can't remember the last time I saw a fridge on 240v...). So if you and your girl friend are getting serious about EVs, replacing your fridge for a 120v would hopefully free up a 240v breaker.
     
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  15. esrandl

    esrandl Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2018
    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Evans, GA
    I did just plain 110v for over a year (yes, I do have 240 NEMA 14-50 now). It just isn't necessary most of the time. You get around 40 miles of charge in 8hrs overnight and if you leave car plugged in during weekend (80% SOC) you make up any additional losses. I rarely charged elsewhere, but you can always hit a supercharger or a plain old 40amp charger while running errands, etc. The only reason I upgraded is I had plenty of space in junction box and it was a short run to make an outlet a few feet away, cheap and a no brainer. Now I just charge those 30-40 miles in a few hours rather than overnight. I have literally NEVER come home to charge from empty to full and then left again even with upgrade. I think the suggested need for 240 is pretty overstated.

    My advice; try things as they are and see if this is *really* the issue that you need to deal with before digging up yard, etc. Give it a month or two. Even though it was cheap for me, I could have probably saved my money and I was doing just fine before the upgrade.
     
    • Like x 3
  16. arch4life

    arch4life Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2019
    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Michigan
    If it's modern construction, the wire gauge may be sufficient for a 5-20 outlet, which looks like this picture i've attached. On the model 3 with the correct adapter for this plug, you can get 6-7 miles per hour of charge. This is what I use when I visit my family, who had the garage redone in the 2000's. I found that this additional amperage makes for a reasonable solution if you have guaranteed garage access.

    upload_2020-1-20_9-40-23.jpeg
     
    • Like x 3
  17. Webeevdrivers

    Webeevdrivers Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,215
    Location:
    Canada
    Check to see if you have opposite leg 120 volt receptacles in the garage. If you do just get a “quick 220” device. We have a clipper creek 240 volt 12 amp EVSE on a 15 amp circuit. Works well and more than supplies my daily commute needs.
     
    • Love x 1
  18. PianoAl

    PianoAl Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Far Northern California
    You can try this when you get your car, and see if it will work for you:

    1. Set your charge limit to 90%
    2. Go to your neighborhood supercharger, and charge to 90%
    3. Plug your car into your 110V outlet in the garage
    4. Set your charging to begin at your bedtime (10 PM?), when you won't be using the dryer
    5. Wake up to 40 new miles
    6. Charge longer if you want

    Even if you drive, say, 60 miles per day, you'll only lose 20 miles each day. If you get too low, or want to go on a trip, visit the supercharger.

    After a month of that, you'll have a better idea of what kind of dough you want to pay to the electricians.

    I'm sure you know you can get a special rate plan with SCE:

    Screen Shot 2020-01-20 at 7.12.29 AM.jpg
     
    • Like x 1
  19. PianoAl

    PianoAl Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Far Northern California
    #19 PianoAl, Jan 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
    General question for all:

    I know that our Leaf charged much less efficiently on 110V than it did on 220V (that is, fewer miles added per kWh of electricity used).


    Is that true for the M3 as well??
     
  20. arch4life

    arch4life Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2019
    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Michigan
    Yes. 80% efficient vs 90+% on HPWC
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC