Charging Concerns; Challenging Townhome Situation

[Spacep0d]

Howdy Teslarati and fans!

Okay, I have an unusual issue here with my charging setup as I plan my purchase of a Model 3 Long Range before March of 2020.

I'm in a townhome which I co-own with my girlfriend, and the townhome was built in 1990 with obviously no plan in mind for EV charging. I've had electricians out to assess the place for upgrades, but it's looking bleak. Maybe one of you townhome/condo-dwelling Tesla owners has some ideas for workarounds. Maybe some of you are qualified electricians!

1. I have what is technically an 'attached' garage, but there's a patio between my place and the garage. So, you exit the patio, open a small lockable door and the garage is there (a nice and deep two-car garage). All 120 volt or standard outlets inside.

2. My unit has a pathetic 60a panel box with no headroom for a dedicated garage line, or that's what I've been told by some of the techs who checked out my place. Worse, the panel box is in the downstairs bathroom. So, even running cable from the box involves channeling it through the ceiling and then trenching around the patio cement and in to the garage. The builder of these units did not make things easy.

3. My dryer is gas, so I can't either plug in there (of course it's upstairs), nor can I convert the dryer to gas to free up amperage because it's already gas.

4. By all accounts, it looks like everything is maxed out with no future-proofing. This more than anything makes me want to upgrade to a single-family home, but that's another story.

5. I know there's hardware which can switch power as it's available to an EVSE, such as the DCC Miser Switch;
DCC Electric – Simplifying Electric Vehicle Charging In Condos

Trouble is, I need HOA permission to even think about this. I've broached the subject with this but apparently I'm the *first* EV owner to approach them about charging issues or adjusting the infrastructure to facilitate garage charging. OF COURSE I AM. Naturally, they are slow and unmotivated, and probably all driving around in ICE vehicles, but they seem to understand that this trend isn't going anywhere and that the incidence of EV ownership is rising.

6. Brute Force approach; I could just pay a pro to route some wiring to the garage and install a switch so that the L2 EVSE locks out the dryer in some fashion, or maybe I can lock out the dryer with a manual switch. Just spitballin' here. This wouldn't exactly be a permitted install, I'm guessing. It's not like I use the dryer all the time, but I know that this isn't really considered a workaround, unless there's hardware I can use without getting the HOA involved?

7. I could just rely on Supercharging every time, which I don't mind doing, but how bad is this for the battery range and life? Does anyone out there currently do this with their Tesla? Certainly, not every Tesla owner has an amazing house with copious and accessible amperage, right? Some of you have to live in Townhomes, Condos, and Apartments. How do you charge your lovely Teslas?

Any other ideas?

Thanks!

 

[maketm]

How much do you drive every day/week? Any chance of charging at work?

 

[kftnyc]

Keep in mind that Model 3 allows you to decide the max current draw when charging from a wall outlet. I live in an apartment where I was allowed to run an extension cord to the nearby data closet in the parking garage. I charge at 8A just to make sure I never trip a breaker that I can’t get to. That’s good for 3mph, so about 35-40 miles overnight.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Couple ideas. Your dryer is gas. It uses electricity though. Probly a 120V outlet, right so far? Is there also a 240V outlet in case you had an electric dryer? That would be a 30A 240V (double) breaker in your panel. If so, there is a breaker you could use.

Second, Your outlets in the garage are 120V? Are they all on the same breaker? If not, you can combine the wiring so that you can get 240V and either 15 or 20A depending on what was run to your garage.

FYI I charge my Model 3 at 240V 30A and have no problems staying charged. I'm retired but I have been putting miles on the car >10,000 pre year.

 

[eevee-fan]

Howdy Teslarati and fans!

Okay, I have an unusual issue here with my charging setup as I plan my purchase of a Model 3 Long Range before March of 2020.

I'm in a townhome which I co-own with my girlfriend, and the townhome was built in 1990 with obviously no plan in mind for EV charging. I've had electricians out to assess the place for upgrades, but it's looking bleak. Maybe one of you townhome/condo-dwelling Tesla owners has some ideas for workarounds. Maybe some of you are qualified electricians!

1. I have what is technically an 'attached' garage, but there's a patio between my place and the garage. So, you exit the patio, open a small lockable door and the garage is there (a nice and deep two-car garage). All 120 volt or standard outlets inside.

2. My unit has a pathetic 60a panel box with no headroom for a dedicated garage line, or that's what I've been told by some of the techs who checked out my place. Worse, the panel box is in the downstairs bathroom. So, even running cable from the box involves channeling it through the ceiling and then trenching around the patio cement and in to the garage. The builder of these units did not make things easy.

3. My dryer is gas, so I can't either plug in there (of course it's upstairs), nor can I convert the dryer to gas to free up amperage because it's already gas.

4. By all accounts, it looks like everything is maxed out with no future-proofing. This more than anything makes me want to upgrade to a single-family home, but that's another story.

5. I know there's hardware which can switch power as it's available to an EVSE, such as the DCC Miser Switch;
DCC Electric – Simplifying Electric Vehicle Charging In Condos

Trouble is, I need HOA permission to even think about this. I've broached the subject with this but apparently I'm the *first* EV owner to approach them about charging issues or adjusting the infrastructure to facilitate garage charging. OF COURSE I AM. Naturally, they are slow and unmotivated, and probably all driving around in ICE vehicles, but they seem to understand that this trend isn't going anywhere and that the incidence of EV ownership is rising.

6. Brute Force approach; I could just pay a pro to route some wiring to the garage and install a switch so that the L2 EVSE locks out the dryer in some fashion, or maybe I can lock out the dryer with a manual switch. Just spitballin' here. This wouldn't exactly be a permitted install, I'm guessing. It's not like I use the dryer all the time, but I know that this isn't really considered a workaround, unless there's hardware I can use without getting the HOA involved?

7. I could just rely on Supercharging every time, which I don't mind doing, but how bad is this for the battery range and life? Does anyone out there currently do this with their Tesla? Certainly, not every Tesla owner has an amazing house with copious and accessible amperage, right? Some of you have to live in Townhomes, Condos, and Apartments. How do you charge your lovely Teslas?

Any other ideas?

Thanks!

If you can find 2 distinct 120V in your unit, you can link the two 120V into a 240V with this device.

EV Doubler using two 120v outlet

 

[Spacep0d]

How much do you drive every day/week? Any chance of charging at work?

I should have mentioned this. I work from home *mostly*, so I do have the advantage of being able to top off at home fairly easily. But, I'd rather not put such a load on my 120v outlets for 12+ hours if I can avoid it. Plus, my girlfriend may want her own EV at some point.

 

[Spacep0d]

Keep in mind that Model 3 allows you to decide the max current draw when charging from a wall outlet. I live in an apartment where I was allowed to run an extension cord to the nearby data closet in the parking garage. I charge at 8A just to make sure I never trip a breaker that I can’t get to. That’s good for 3mph, so about 35-40 miles overnight.

Yeah this is not bad. I want to be as safe as possible, and I have a really good extension cable rated for trickle charging which I used with the LEAF S. I could get to full charge over a weekend, but near the end of the week I'd eventually have to quick charge as charging at night couldn't keep up. Thanks!

 

[Spacep0d]

Couple ideas. Your dryer is gas. It uses electricity though. Probly a 120V outlet, right so far? Is there also a 240V outlet in case you had an electric dryer? That would be a 30A 240V (double) breaker in your panel. If so, there is a breaker you could use.

Second, Your outlets in the garage are 120V? Are they all on the same breaker? If not, you can combine the wiring so that you can get 240V and either 15 or 20A depending on what was run to your garage.

FYI I charge my Model 3 at 240V 30A and have no problems staying charged. I'm retired but I have been putting miles on the car >10,000 pre year.

Hi Feathermerchan(t),

Yes, I do believe I may have two distinct 120v outlets in the garage. I'll have to check for this with a tool (made for such purposes) or I'll have an assessment done by a pro. I do not have any 240v outlets anywhere but the fridge, and that's gotta stay plugged in as one would expect. The dryer only has regular wall outlets, though one of them is made for this type of thing (but it's definitely 120v).

I do like the combined wiring idea. That might do the trick.

 

[Spacep0d]

If you can find 2 distinct 120V in your unit, you can link the two 120V into a 240V with this device.

EV Doubler using two 120v outlet

Wow, I've not seen anything like this before. Great link here. Thanks! I'll pursue this option first (low hanging fruit). First I'll have an electrician out to make a proper assessment in the garage and I can have it ready before I get the car. Thanks! This is the kind of info I needed, and all of the responses in this thread have been helpful!

 

[eprosenx]

Howdy Teslarati and fans!

Okay, I have an unusual issue here with my charging setup as I plan my purchase of a Model 3 Long Range before March of 2020.

I'm in a townhome which I co-own with my girlfriend, and the townhome was built in 1990 with obviously no plan in mind for EV charging. I've had electricians out to assess the place for upgrades, but it's looking bleak. Maybe one of you townhome/condo-dwelling Tesla owners has some ideas for workarounds. Maybe some of you are qualified electricians!

1. I have what is technically an 'attached' garage, but there's a patio between my place and the garage. So, you exit the patio, open a small lockable door and the garage is there (a nice and deep two-car garage). All 120 volt or standard outlets inside.

2. My unit has a pathetic 60a panel box with no headroom for a dedicated garage line, or that's what I've been told by some of the techs who checked out my place. Worse, the panel box is in the downstairs bathroom. So, even running cable from the box involves channeling it through the ceiling and then trenching around the patio cement and in to the garage. The builder of these units did not make things easy.

3. My dryer is gas, so I can't either plug in there (of course it's upstairs), nor can I convert the dryer to gas to free up amperage because it's already gas.

4. By all accounts, it looks like everything is maxed out with no future-proofing. This more than anything makes me want to upgrade to a single-family home, but that's another story.

5. I know there's hardware which can switch power as it's available to an EVSE, such as the DCC Miser Switch;
DCC Electric – Simplifying Electric Vehicle Charging In Condos

Trouble is, I need HOA permission to even think about this. I've broached the subject with this but apparently I'm the *first* EV owner to approach them about charging issues or adjusting the infrastructure to facilitate garage charging. OF COURSE I AM. Naturally, they are slow and unmotivated, and probably all driving around in ICE vehicles, but they seem to understand that this trend isn't going anywhere and that the incidence of EV ownership is rising.

6. Brute Force approach; I could just pay a pro to route some wiring to the garage and install a switch so that the L2 EVSE locks out the dryer in some fashion, or maybe I can lock out the dryer with a manual switch. Just spitballin' here. This wouldn't exactly be a permitted install, I'm guessing. It's not like I use the dryer all the time, but I know that this isn't really considered a workaround, unless there's hardware I can use without getting the HOA involved?

7. I could just rely on Supercharging every time, which I don't mind doing, but how bad is this for the battery range and life? Does anyone out there currently do this with their Tesla? Certainly, not every Tesla owner has an amazing house with copious and accessible amperage, right? Some of you have to live in Townhomes, Condos, and Apartments. How do you charge your lovely Teslas?

Any other ideas?

Thanks!

Can you post pictures of your electrical panel and all the stickers/labels on the panel or it’s door? I want to see what all you have in there.

Also take pictures of the electrical meter and the circuit breaker / main disconnect outside or wherever it is.

I am shocked that a 60a main would be allowed in 1990. Around here I don’t think anything less than 100a has been allowed in a very long time, and 125a is common.

 

[Spacep0d]

Can you post pictures of your electrical panel and all the stickers/labels on the panel or it’s door? I want to see what all you have in there.

Also take pictures of the electrical meter and the circuit breaker / main disconnect outside or wherever it is.

I am shocked that a 60a main would be allowed in 1990. Around here I don’t think anything less than 100a has been allowed in a very long time, and 125a is common.

Believe me I was shocked too, and so were the electricians I had out to see what my options were. I was willing to pay good money to get a dedicated L2 charger in the garage, but most were thinking they couldn't do it. Yeah, I'll add my photos to this thread once I find 'em as the electricians I dealt with in early 2019 were asking for similar pictures.

The Quick 220 is looking like the front-runner now if I really need L2 charging.

 

[David_Cary]

Did you get a quote to upgrade the panel?
Are you considering solar in the future? Because if you are, the panel might need an upgrade at that point.

 

[dhrivnak]

I should have mentioned this. I work from home *mostly*, so I do have the advantage of being able to top off at home fairly easily. But, I'd rather not put such a load on my 120v outlets for 12+ hours if I can avoid it. Plus, my girlfriend may want her own EV at some point.

A 12 hour load is not a problem at all. Think of it as similar to adding a freezer or refrigerator in the garage. You would never think twice about that.

 

[Scrannel]

I am not an electrician, but it seems to me most refrigerators these days run on 120v (I can't remember the last time I saw a fridge on 240v...). So if you and your girl friend are getting serious about EVs, replacing your fridge for a 120v would hopefully free up a 240v breaker.

 

[esrandl]

I did just plain 110v for over a year (yes, I do have 240 NEMA 14-50 now). It just isn't necessary most of the time. You get around 40 miles of charge in 8hrs overnight and if you leave car plugged in during weekend (80% SOC) you make up any additional losses. I rarely charged elsewhere, but you can always hit a supercharger or a plain old 40amp charger while running errands, etc. The only reason I upgraded is I had plenty of space in junction box and it was a short run to make an outlet a few feet away, cheap and a no brainer. Now I just charge those 30-40 miles in a few hours rather than overnight. I have literally NEVER come home to charge from empty to full and then left again even with upgrade. I think the suggested need for 240 is pretty overstated.

My advice; try things as they are and see if this is *really* the issue that you need to deal with before digging up yard, etc. Give it a month or two. Even though it was cheap for me, I could have probably saved my money and I was doing just fine before the upgrade.

 

[arch4life]

If it's modern construction, the wire gauge may be sufficient for a 5-20 outlet, which looks like this picture i've attached. On the model 3 with the correct adapter for this plug, you can get 6-7 miles per hour of charge. This is what I use when I visit my family, who had the garage redone in the 2000's. I found that this additional amperage makes for a reasonable solution if you have guaranteed garage access.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Check to see if you have opposite leg 120 volt receptacles in the garage. If you do just get a “quick 220” device. We have a clipper creek 240 volt 12 amp EVSE on a 15 amp circuit. Works well and more than supplies my daily commute needs.

 

[PianoAl]

You can try this when you get your car, and see if it will work for you:

1. Set your charge limit to 90%
2. Go to your neighborhood supercharger, and charge to 90%
3. Plug your car into your 110V outlet in the garage
4. Set your charging to begin at your bedtime (10 PM?), when you won't be using the dryer
5. Wake up to 40 new miles
6. Charge longer if you want

Even if you drive, say, 60 miles per day, you'll only lose 20 miles each day. If you get too low, or want to go on a trip, visit the supercharger.

After a month of that, you'll have a better idea of what kind of dough you want to pay to the electricians.

I'm sure you know you can get a special rate plan with SCE:

 

[PianoAl]

General question for all:

I know that our Leaf charged much less efficiently on 110V than it did on 220V (that is, fewer miles added per kWh of electricity used).


Is that true for the M3 as well??

 

[arch4life]

General question for all:

I know that our Leaf charged much less efficiently on 110V than it did on 220V (that is, fewer miles added per kWh of electricity used).


Is that true for the M3 as well??

Yes. 80% efficient vs 90+% on HPWC