How many will look into the F-150 Lightning?

[scottf200]

I agree with you. It's still an honest question. I would like to know the towing capabilities independent of maximum load. Say, half load. People I know haul with their trucks. I think that they would only entertain an EV pickup if they knew what it could do.

Snowmobilers pull their big trailers with 4 snow machines up here 100 miles from the big city. Is it practical for them? Just asking because it's a real world use where I live as opposed to having a giant truck in your garage that can't do anything but go to Walmart.

I think the 1st generation of all the BEV trucks are not the target audience for long and extra heavy towing. Especially not in the cold northern winters (I'm familiar with MT winters so I can guess on ID ones).

If you've watched YT videos of the F150 Lightning towing, you know that they take moderate (distance & weight) seriously. You enter the trailer details and route. It takes that and looks up in the 'cloud' for similar past drives of you or others and then gives you an estimate. Lot of effort here by Ford.

Ford sells 600K-900K F150s per year (goodcardbadcar numbers)
Chev sells 500K-800K 1500s per year
Plenty of early market buyers for the 95% common truck users (short range/light hauling), DIYers, folks that like to ride higher...

I don't think the Cybertruck will do 500 miles either unless it is a monster battery on the equivalent of "flat land" doing avg 55 mph or less. Towing range = 40+%; Cold range = 30+%

Tow No! The Ford F-150 Lightning Struggled in Our Towing Test

We towed 3100-, 5300-, and 7200-pound travel trailers with Ford’s electric truck and didn’t get very far from home.

www.motortrend.com

Perhaps most important, the Lightning doesn't try to hide its limited towing range. The truck cut its estimated range in half every time we connected a trailer and punched the load's weight and dimensions into the 15.5-inch touchscreen. That number then fell rapidly during the first few miles of highway driving until it accurately reflected what was possible. Until someone figures out how to double or triple the energy density of lithium-ion batteries, that seems like the most we can ask of electric vehicles that are pressed into towing duty.

GoodCarBadCar F150

 

[T3SLAROD]

Range of Lighting under load. I don't know why you think it's a weird question. I honestly want to know.

It is very weird to me because as EV Drivers we all know there are too many factors that will contribute to range. On top of that we have seen countless EV’s fall flat on their face towing including the Lightning, Rivian. I will just tell you that if you need to tow 10k more than 100 miles it’s not for you IMO. Here is an article that will help you, it’s really awful

Tow No! The Ford F-150 Lightning Struggled in Our Towing Test

We towed 3100-, 5300-, and 7200-pound travel trailers with Ford’s electric truck and didn’t get very far from home.

www.motortrend.com

I will credit Tesla with not making the CT look like it can tow anything and selling more as a Sports/Off-road fun truck. This is where Ford went wrong, the should have just made the Lightning a Sports Truck and called it a day.

 

[scottf200]

If you've watched YT videos of the F150 Lightning towing, you know that they take moderate (distance & weight) seriously. You enter the trailer details and route. It takes that and looks up in the 'cloud' for similar past drives of you or others and then gives you an estimate. Lot of effort here by Ford.

Cloud references and other setup stuff:

 

[DrGriz]

Thanks for the helpful replies, guys. I realize that EV range varies greatly depending on a number of factors. That said, I have read about people pulling large campers with their model Ys, and actually going places. So it's very interesting to me to hear about real world experiences.

 

[FLRifleman]

I agree with you. It's still an honest question. I would like to know the towing capabilities independent of maximum load. Say, half load. People I know haul with their trucks. I think that they would only entertain an EV pickup if they knew what it could do.

Snowmobilers pull their big trailers with 4 snow machines up here 100 miles from the big city. Is it practical for them? Just asking because it's a real world use where I live as opposed to having a giant truck in your garage that can't do anything but go to Walmart.

Those numbers are out there, I just don't remember off the top of my head. Both the Out of Spec Reviews and the TFL channel have done extensive towing & payload tests with the Lightning. Out of Spec Reviews did one maxing out the payload limit with water tanks. The max payload barely affected the range, which unloaded was ~260 miles at 70 mph. TFL has done several towing with different trailers. The end result was the biggest impact on range wasn't the weight, but the aerodynamics of the towed vehicle. I recommend watching some of those.

 

[TjckTock]

Need to consider elevation. It takes 20kWh energy just to lift 10000 pounds 1 mile (not counting drag and other losses). So if you have any significant elevation to climb it'll eat a significant portion of your 131kWh ER battery.

 

[ThomasD]

Pretty good towing test with the Lightening

 

[Feathermerchan]

Need to consider elevation. It takes 20kWh energy just to lift 10000 pounds 1 mile (not counting drag and other losses). So if you have any significant elevation to climb it'll eat a significant portion of your 131kWh ER battery.

May be true but you get back most of that with regen assuming a round trip. The Nav system counts elevation change when calculating trips.

 

[Earl]

EV’s fall flat on their face towing including the Lightning, Rivian.

I've always considered the 500 mile range CT to be for towing 250 miles per charge. The AWD and ridiculous acceleration is just gravy.
The rest, quoting empty load range and not offering a model that is viable for towing, are not really doing the EV world much of a favor.

 

[ThomasD]

GM is investing hundreds of millions of dollars into a new engine for their trucks. Not that long ago GM stated that there would be an electric pickup with a 20,000 lbs towing capacity. Maybe in a few years we will have an electric heavy duty light truck that can compete on range with ICE or Diesel. The charging infrastructure will have to change. You will absolutely need large pull through charging stations.

 

[polyphonic54]

Long range towing just isn't going to be a thing for many years. You'll have to budget 1 mile per kWh for moderate highway speeds. That's the best Rivian, Ford, Audi, etc. can do right now. The Lightning has 131 kWh usable. We will need 300-400+ kWh for more comparable towing to ICE, in addition to better infrastructure. The EV trucks are awesome in so many ways, but it's just a fact they are not meant for towing long distances.

In my experience hauling doesn't have much effect on range, so let's separate that from towing.

As for the Cybertruck, it doesn't seem like a serious product. 3 EV trucks have been to market for up to a year or more. CT is years behind schedule and they still have that stainless steel exoskeleton silliness. They might as well have advertised 600 miles of range.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Best my F150 gets is 20 on the hwy. 15 around town. It's shaped like bricks. Just like every other pickup. Hoping the Cyber truck will be more efficient.

 

[BigNerd]

Best my F150 gets is 20 on the hwy. 15 around town. It's shaped like bricks. Just like every other pickup.

My diesel Silverado 1500 gets 20-25 city and 30+ hwy... but I NEVER tow.

 

[Roy2001]

BEV is so efficient that any factor that impact MPG would show bigger effect than ICE. That's why Lightnings see worse MPGe when towning. Similarly, high speed would reduce MPGe more than ICE.

For example, ICE burns one gallon gas for 16 miles, amont 16 miles, 6 miles were wasted, not towing reduces efficiency from 10 miles to 5 miles, finaly MPG is 11.

For BEV, MPGe would be cut in half directly.

 

[ThomasD]

Ford Lightenings stack up due to canceled orders

 

[T3SLAROD]

Ford Lightenings stack up due to canceled orders

No different than Teslas stacking up in inventory. People are cancelling because interest rates keep going up and the truck is expensive. Even Musk is begging for interest rates to come down.

The CT will suffer the same fate. Ford is building them as fast as possible and now there is inventory. Nothing to see here.

 

[KJD]

Ford Lightenings stack up due to canceled orders

OK some information there and some of what he said was total B.S. I quit listening when he said that winter time towing range is only 30 or 40 miles.

At the start of December I looked around at Ford Lightings and was told the going price was MSRP plus 15k. I told them no thanks.

On December 30 one of the dealers that I had contacted earlier sent me an email with a listing and said "he could let it go for MSRP if I bought today". It was a 2022 model and I took a pass.

Today that same dealer has 3 Lightnings on the lot (2023 models) at MSRP.

As far as the video claim that there are a thousand of these listed on AutoTrader I am not so sure. I searched for the local area and there are a few. AutoTrader also listed all of the Fords as having 240 mile range. When I looked at the same truck on the dealer web site those same trucks showed 320 mile range. Total FAIL on those listings.

The dealership model needs to DIE.

 

[scottf200]

Ford Lightenings stack up due to canceled orders

a) Response to that YT video I've seen.
_ "Most manufacturers (ford included) automatically list presold-ordered units, as "available for sale" on the receiving dealer's website. Most dealers are set up with a marketing company that uses their software to automatically put every vehicle "in the dealers inventory" on every platform available. Many of those are waiting list ordered units."
_ F150 buyer owner 1: "correct, sh1t they even sold my vehicle twice, and that doesn’t include me, the actually buyer "
_ F150 buyer owner 1: " ... stop by the dealer this past weekend, they showed 4 Lightnings for sale on their website. Stopped by and saw only 1 was for sale (customer ordered). The other 3 are pre-sold special orders that were being picked up or had been picked up."

b) Looks like there is still price gouging going on. A few quick examples from a search.
$77,174 MSRP
+$25,000 Dealer Adjustment
$102,174 Listing Price

$81,644 MSRP
+$12,000 Dealer Adjustment
$93,644 Listing Price

$61,269 MSRP
+$20,000 Dealer Adjustment
$81,269 Listing Price

 

[T3SLAROD]

a) Response to that YT video I've seen.
_ "Most manufacturers (ford included) automatically list presold-ordered units, as "available for sale" on the receiving dealer's website. Most dealers are set up with a marketing company that uses their software to automatically put every vehicle "in the dealers inventory" on every platform available. Many of those are waiting list ordered units."
_ F150 buyer owner 1: "correct, sh1t they even sold my vehicle twice, and that doesn’t include me, the actually buyer "
_ F150 buyer owner 1: " ... stop by the dealer this past weekend, they showed 4 Lightnings for sale on their website. Stopped by and saw only 1 was for sale (customer ordered). The other 3 are pre-sold special orders that were being picked up or had been picked up."

b) Looks like there is still price gouging going on. A few quick examples from a search.
$77,174 MSRP
+$25,000 Dealer Adjustment
$102,174 Listing Price

$81,644 MSRP
+$12,000 Dealer Adjustment
$93,644 Listing Price

$61,269 MSRP
+$20,000 Dealer Adjustment
$81,269 Listing Price

Dealer adjustment on these are a joke. It’s a great truck but to me $80k is already pushing it.

I think Ford saw that the Model Y was selling like hotcakes at $76k with FSD and figured $80k for Lariat ER wasn’t a bad price, and I agree. But now $88k-$90k? No thanks.

Not to mention the depreciation. Dealers are offering $39k for these smh….

 

[BigNerd]

Today that same dealer has 3 Lightnings on the lot (2023 models) at MSRP.

I need to fly to Utah. I have yet to see a Pro/XLT trim even close to MSRP in SoCal.