There's a good chance that free supercharging will not be included for the Model 3. If "long distance" supercharging is offered as an option, how much would it be worth to you?
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How much would you pay for Supercharging on Model 3?
- Thread starter Haxster
- Start date
SureValla
Member
Elon said it was included in the price of the car so you won't pay anything for it after you buy the car.
Yes, Supercharging capability is built-in. That doesn't mean that it will be free to use the Supercharger stations.
Gas cars include a free gas fill pipe and cap...but not free gas.
Gas cars include a free gas fill pipe and cap...but not free gas.
model3fan
Member
I'd love a pay per minute or $25/use model or something. I'd almost never use it. I can think of one work trip I take annually that's 180 miles each way that I'd like to use it versus borrow my husband's car. Honestly, I'd prefer it wasn't built into the price of the car and maybe give us another perk of some sort instead.
There's threads on facebook groups and such about people planning to abuse the network (if included) because they live in apartments and whatnot.
There's threads on facebook groups and such about people planning to abuse the network (if included) because they live in apartments and whatnot.
Menifeer
Member
I don't expect to ever need to recharge away from home, so I voted "Nothing".
If/when large numbers of Model 3's are on the road, the network will have to be greatly enlarged. Waiting in line to get a spot will be very off-putting...
If/when large numbers of Model 3's are on the road, the network will have to be greatly enlarged. Waiting in line to get a spot will be very off-putting...
As far as using a local Supercharger as a regular filling station, this is a current problem with some Model S owners. While it may be too late to enforce "long-distance-use-only" on current Tesla owners, it's a whole new ball game with the Model 3.
For the Model 3, Tesla could choose to offer local fill-up at Superchargers as an added cost service that's either bundled or separate from long-distance use. This would deal with the reality that a higher percentage of M3 owners are likely to have difficulties charging at home than the more affluent house-owning S & X owners.
For the Model 3, Tesla could choose to offer local fill-up at Superchargers as an added cost service that's either bundled or separate from long-distance use. This would deal with the reality that a higher percentage of M3 owners are likely to have difficulties charging at home than the more affluent house-owning S & X owners.
My issue is that if there is a large price premium to use them, I will just leave the Model 3 at home and use my gas car for the road trip.
I would prefer having a certain number of free uses includes per year or have it like the S and X.
I would prefer having a certain number of free uses includes per year or have it like the S and X.
pinski
Not Ludicrous
I voted Nothing, $100/year or $1000 lifetime. The use I would see from Superchargers would be minimal on an annual basis. If it's not included with the purchase of the car, I'd vastly prefer a pay-per-use model. However, I would probably be willing to do a $100/year contract or a $1000 lifetime option.
Otherwise for the majority of our use, it doesn't make sense.
Otherwise for the majority of our use, it doesn't make sense.
Yes, if they're able to ramp production on Model 3s as fast as they want, it's hard to imagine how Tesla can keep up with the need for Supercharging stations. Maybe they will be by reservation, pay for priority use, "put a little juice in here at this crowded station and fill up at the next less crowded one", and maybe use the "summon" feature to move cars in and out of the chargers.... They're smart people. They'll figure something out...hopefully.
I think 100$ per year or $1000 lifetime max or nothing (included in price for larger battery) are good options. This gives the flexibility to folks not really want to shelve out 1k for superchargers that they may not use and put those dollars to upgrade another option on the car itself and if they want they can add it for a year for try it out for their long distance trips some point later on. This helps continue the life and expansion of the superchargers. 10 years ownership of the car would make 1k if the contract is renewed. I think some may want to just pay out the 1k for lifetime supercharger access and can't afford the larger battery.
My plan is to take the larger battery and this should include free lifetime supercharger access.
I have faith in tesla that they can maintain and expand the superchargers. The plan that I am aware of is to transition them to solar so this reduces the on going cost to tesla.
25$ or 50$ per charge is not good options because that goes against elons plan to sustainable transport, people will just drive their ice and fill up for less.
My plan is to take the larger battery and this should include free lifetime supercharger access.
I have faith in tesla that they can maintain and expand the superchargers. The plan that I am aware of is to transition them to solar so this reduces the on going cost to tesla.
25$ or 50$ per charge is not good options because that goes against elons plan to sustainable transport, people will just drive their ice and fill up for less.
The average mileage per person per year is roughly 15k. I'm using a roughly higher number, making population assumptions.
(Source used: Average Annual Miles per Driver by Age Group)
I'd estimate the Model 3 to do well under 300 Wh/Mile, or 0.3 kWh/Mile.
Priced at $ 0.14 (source: Short-Term Energy Outlook - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA))
0.3 kWh/Mile * 15000 = 5000 kWh
5000 kWh * $ 0.14 = $ 700 annually
If the entire fleet would use it on 20% of their actual mileage, that would amount to an average of $ 140 per car per year. Ofcourse... YMMV. Mess around with the numbers as you please.
Other thoughts that come to mind:
- it is unlikely you would *only* use the SuC (home (solar PV) charging has its benefits)
- is destination charging included?
- I'd definitely want SuC capability on my cars, preferably included in price, and mainly for long distance trips (I've done quite a few already)
Curious to hear about your thoughts. Please correct me if my assumptions or math are off.
(Source used: Average Annual Miles per Driver by Age Group)
I'd estimate the Model 3 to do well under 300 Wh/Mile, or 0.3 kWh/Mile.
Priced at $ 0.14 (source: Short-Term Energy Outlook - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA))
0.3 kWh/Mile * 15000 = 5000 kWh
5000 kWh * $ 0.14 = $ 700 annually
If the entire fleet would use it on 20% of their actual mileage, that would amount to an average of $ 140 per car per year. Ofcourse... YMMV. Mess around with the numbers as you please.
Other thoughts that come to mind:
- it is unlikely you would *only* use the SuC (home (solar PV) charging has its benefits)
- is destination charging included?
- I'd definitely want SuC capability on my cars, preferably included in price, and mainly for long distance trips (I've done quite a few already)
Curious to hear about your thoughts. Please correct me if my assumptions or math are off.
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I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of fee and I can understand if Tesla ends up in that kind of solution. However, I feel that $25/use would be a tad high. We have one (regular) longer trip, that we do 4-6 times a year, during which we would need supercharging in both directions. So one trip would be $50. Not too bad, expect that currently the fuel cost for that trip is around $20.
I won't mind paying for the use, but shouldn't it be at least on par with ICE costs?
Edit: typos
Alex, as an economic analysis, your numbers look quite reasonable.
I think that at least two other (time) factors figure in:
1. Some owners (e.g. living in apartments) won't have the ability to charge where they live or work. Access to Supercharging stations near their home or work will be important practical factors for them. How much is this worth? My guess: somewhere between your $0.14/kWh and the equivalent price of gas. And Tesla can sell more cars if local charging options can overcome home-based limitations.
2. During long distance travel, being able to juice up in 20 minutes vs 2+ hours is a big deal. How much is this worth? How about the owners equivalent pay rate or an impatient spouse and two bored kids.
I think that at least two other (time) factors figure in:
1. Some owners (e.g. living in apartments) won't have the ability to charge where they live or work. Access to Supercharging stations near their home or work will be important practical factors for them. How much is this worth? My guess: somewhere between your $0.14/kWh and the equivalent price of gas. And Tesla can sell more cars if local charging options can overcome home-based limitations.
2. During long distance travel, being able to juice up in 20 minutes vs 2+ hours is a big deal. How much is this worth? How about the owners equivalent pay rate or an impatient spouse and two bored kids.
Woosie
Member
I anticipate there to be three options: no enabling, pay a one-time flat rate for lifetime enabling, or a deterministic pay for use rate to enable. For this last approach it is simple to use the Tesla website/app to enter a requested period of enabling supercharging; you pre-pay that charge and fill up as needed during that time period. Simple to implement and manage by Tesla and Users.
I think Tesla should give options that cover everyone. First I'll define long-distance supercharging as all superchargers that are more than 100 miles from your home. Here are the options I would give.
$2500 - Unlimited use of long-distance supercharging for the life of the vehicle (transferable to new owners). This would also include the use of local superchargers (< 100 miles from your home) a max of 4 times a month.
$7000 - Unlimited use of all superchargers (includes local) for the life of the vehicle (transferable to new owners).
$50 - Per use (credit card must be on file). Also the charge if you go above max local supercharging for the first option.
$2500 - Unlimited use of long-distance supercharging for the life of the vehicle (transferable to new owners). This would also include the use of local superchargers (< 100 miles from your home) a max of 4 times a month.
$7000 - Unlimited use of all superchargers (includes local) for the life of the vehicle (transferable to new owners).
$50 - Per use (credit card must be on file). Also the charge if you go above max local supercharging for the first option.
What if someone makes a lot of long distance trips and they can't make it home from the Supercharger that is more than 100 miles away from their house home in a single charge? (And even if they could they would probably have to range charge, 100%, at the last one which takes way longer and would tie that Supercharger up more than letting them use it and the one within 100 miles of their house.
It just isn't practical.
It sounds like that person needs the $7000 option. My idea behind the $7000 option is mainly to have taxis and Uber drivers pay for their use. A range of 60 miles from home might be better.
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$10-$15 per use. Based on maybe 1 or 2 trips longer than 300 miles per year.
With $3 gas and 30mpg that would come out to about half the price of gas. On top that that the extra time it would take to charge vs fill up and limited charging options makes taking the Lexus the better option for long distance travel.
With $3 gas and 30mpg that would come out to about half the price of gas. On top that that the extra time it would take to charge vs fill up and limited charging options makes taking the Lexus the better option for long distance travel.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
Traditional livery are easily segmented because, unlike non-garaged locals who might SC 1x/week, or garaged locals who just seem to get thrown under the bus constantly, taxis will SC daily or multiple times daily. I've met 'em - they'll drive 50,000 miles or more annually. If anyone's going to SC daily, it's livery. Not locals, garaged or otherwise.
And by definition, a local who travels out of town is no longer local. Leave the locals alone - they're not, nor will be a significant problem for many years, if ever. It is worth noting that most don't and won't use SCs, and that 95%+ of SCs are emmmmmmpty.
ICEing, especially after charging is complete, *is* a significant problem (within the context of densely-populated county SCs). Signage standards and stall painting standards must improve - and until that time, education needs to happen.
Today, I saw a woman in a new Porsche park in an SC space (one of the busier locations), get out, read the sign, and start walking toward the host business anyway even though there ICE spaces adjacent. I took the time to briefly but politely enlighten her as to why that was not helpful, but might not have had to if there was better signage and markings. Chademo spaces in Oregon are well-marked. Small municipal no parking signs placed under the EV signs go a long way, and make it simple for property owners/managers to call a towing company. Seen it happen.
Anyway, within our community, a quarterly e-newsletter reminding owners new and old of the need to vacate immediately when done and of the negatives of unnecessary pairing would be appreciated.
Pay-per-use plans are antithetical to Tesla's mission. Sell the base model without SCing enabled, and without AP convenience features enabled either. Make each/both enable-able by any owner at any time for a flat fee.
Keep it simple, folks. It's not rocket science. A growing problem is the neverending set of misperceptions about using SCs promulgated in large measure by those who don't.
And by definition, a local who travels out of town is no longer local. Leave the locals alone - they're not, nor will be a significant problem for many years, if ever. It is worth noting that most don't and won't use SCs, and that 95%+ of SCs are emmmmmmpty.
ICEing, especially after charging is complete, *is* a significant problem (within the context of densely-populated county SCs). Signage standards and stall painting standards must improve - and until that time, education needs to happen.
Today, I saw a woman in a new Porsche park in an SC space (one of the busier locations), get out, read the sign, and start walking toward the host business anyway even though there ICE spaces adjacent. I took the time to briefly but politely enlighten her as to why that was not helpful, but might not have had to if there was better signage and markings. Chademo spaces in Oregon are well-marked. Small municipal no parking signs placed under the EV signs go a long way, and make it simple for property owners/managers to call a towing company. Seen it happen.
Anyway, within our community, a quarterly e-newsletter reminding owners new and old of the need to vacate immediately when done and of the negatives of unnecessary pairing would be appreciated.
Pay-per-use plans are antithetical to Tesla's mission. Sell the base model without SCing enabled, and without AP convenience features enabled either. Make each/both enable-able by any owner at any time for a flat fee.
Keep it simple, folks. It's not rocket science. A growing problem is the neverending set of misperceptions about using SCs promulgated in large measure by those who don't.
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