How Secure Are Teslas/Tesla Thefts

[drtimhill]

I’ve had my Model Y for nearly two weeks now and I’ve been thinking about security. You hear stories about car signals being exploited and stolen within minutes etc.

How secure are our Tesla’s? I know they emit a Bluetooth signal for the phone unlocking etc.

I’m also thinking of installing a drive way security post as we have a lot of cars stolen in this area (Bexley) such as Range Rovers and BMW’s.

Against being broken into .. middling. Against being stolen .. high.

First, they have to really know what they are doing to get the car in drive .. unlocking it .. figuring out startup .. driver PIN. Then, even if they do steal the car, you can track the location on your phone.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

This is one of those threads where the question seems to get lost in the discussion.

Some things we know, especially if you’ve had Teslas for some time.

- the U.K. owners group lobbied for pin to drive because cars were getting stolen. This was in the days when there weren’t many Teslas about, pre M3, the key fob was used and relay attacks were common. As well as P2D, the fobs themselves have been improved since.
- cars aren’t stolen for ringing etc, they’re stolen for joy riding or parts. Lithuania is a hot bed for right hand drive parts, odd really given there are no RHD countries within a few thousand miles of there except us and Ireland.
- the older sim could be removed from the drivers seat within 30 seconds. Not the case on later models of M3. The forum is not just a model 3 forum so any comments need to be understood in the context of the model.
- the cars don’t have deadlocks. Stolen cars and stealing from cars are different things, the latter is much easier than it should be, the title of the the thread is broader security
- the Tesla api is widely hacked/used by lots of third party apps and many owners freely give their credentials to these people. Who knows how good their security is but as a minimum the info shared allows them to locate and unlock the car, so a breach in their security is also a breach of yours
- the API is even thought to allow the car to be driven without re-entering the password, this may have been a bug, so Tesla aren’t unknown to get security wrong
- sentry mode is ok as far as it goes, but incredibly wasteful on energy and not 100% reliable.

Is any of this a problem? Not for me, it’s a car and while it would annoy me if someone tried to steal it, it would annoy me if someone lobbed a brick through the window too. I don’t even use P2D because I find it an inconvenience and if anybody got to the point it was needed, they’d already either stolen my phone or key card and the car would just another frustration.

 

[Lockey]

Mind you it’s in a steel box at the time so getting a gps fix must be a challenge. I would think it’s more likely that than whether the wheels turn.

I have a good phone signal for the entire crossing and it's the same even when the car is at the front of the ferry (so out in the open). Google maps knows where my phone is so I don't think it's a faraday cage effect. On a different note it was only my first ferry journey that I forgot to disable the tilt detection!

 

[Adopado]

On a different note it was only my first ferry journey that I forgot to disable the tilt detection!

Been there ... done that ... and on an Isle of Wight ferry too (Lymington)! Mind you the embarrassment was shared with at least half a dozen others who had vehicles that were wailing away on the car deck!

 

[Forty_Two]

I have emailed Tesla supprt twice (first a week back) with the question: I know that keyless cars are able to be stolen by people scanning and cloning the key; is this the same for Tesla – do I need to keep the Tesla black key cards in a faraday pouch / do I need to keep my phone in a faraday pouch?

I've had no reply!

 

[Andywil]

I have emailed Tesla supprt twice (first a week back) with the question: I know that keyless cars are able to be stolen by people scanning and cloning the key; is this the same for Tesla – do I need to keep the Tesla black key cards in a faraday pouch / do I need to keep my phone in a faraday pouch?

I've had no reply!

Key cards are NFC therefore very short range, a couple of inches at most.
Phone key works on Bluetooth which is also short range maybe upto 30 feet at best depending on phone. Bluetooth signals to my knowledge have never been hacked and if your phone is out of range you are perfectly safe.
Even if your phone says it's connected to the car try to open the car door without having the phone on you, I know that if I leave my connected phone in the house I can't open the car.

 

[Forty_Two]

Keyless Car Theft Prevention - 9 ways to keep your car safe

We look at common methods used to steal vehicles with keyless entry systems, as well as keyless car theft prevention techniques. Here’s what you need to know

www.driving.co.uk

1. Signal relaying​

Keyless systems use a simple process. Fobs, compatible smartphones or RFID cards emit a short-range “friendly” radio signal that carries only a few yards. When the associated vehicle is close by (usually within a few metres), the car recognises the signal and allows the doors to be unlocked — often by simply touching a door handle. The same process is used for the ignition on cars with start buttons; the digital key needs to be inside the car itself.

Relay thieves use wireless transmitters held up to the front door or window of a house (or the handbag/pocket of a car owner), to capture the signal from a genuine digital key and relay it to a target vehicle. An accomplice standing close to the vehicle captures the signal, fooling the car into thinking the key is within range, allowing it to be unlocked. Once the accomplice is inside the car, the process can be repeated to start the engine.

Once inside, a blank fob can be programmed to work with the car by accessing the car’s computer port. It’s a process that takes less than a few minutes and allows the car to be started again at a later date (see key programming, below).

Looks like the 'paired' phone is a liability!

 

[NeilG40]

Looks like the 'paired' phone is a liability!

If the car used RFID to connect to the phone but it doesn't it uses bluetooth.

 

[Neilman]

The Tesla Fob is motion sensitive which, in a resting state, effectively turns it off increasing security (and saving battery) but placing it in a Faraday storage box will increase your peace of mind even more.

Tesla mobile phone key access uses Bluetooth, if you don't need Bluetooth for anything else then you can turn it off in your phone when you are not using the car. Obviously putting your phone in a Faraday box/pouch will render its phone function as poor to useless.

The Tesla keycard has no battery so cannot receive or radiate any signal away from the reader device. It needs significant radio power signal from a very adjacent reader a few inches at maximum to become active to then receive and radiate radio signals. No harm in keeping it safer in a Faraday wallet, pouch or storage box.

Tesla finger rings use exactly the same mechanism as Tesla keycards though you're more likely to have it with you all the time. As long as you are not resting your ring on the criminal's RFID reader device then its quite safe.

 

[MrT3]

Looks like the 'paired' phone is a liability!

Bluetooth is extremely difficult to relay - it isn't the same as normal car fobs using 433 MHz frequency.

The Tesla keycards are impossible to relay unless you have physical access to them.

 

[Undecided_2]

I wish the car did, but it doesn't report it's location while driven. Only when parked.

Although, yep, that's still something.

we can track the Y when we’re out and about while it’s driving using the app.

 

[jpm777]

This is totally untrue. The GPS updates when stationery, which would be the case on a low loader. This myth has been told over and over and is untrue.

My experience a couple of years ago was different. I got a flat tyre on the M20 and was recovered on a low loader 45 miles away to the nearest place that had a tyre in stock. When checking the app whilst on the low loader (I was sitting in it due to covid restrictions not allowing me in the cab) it showed the car still on the M20 at the place I stopped and stayed like that even after arriving at the tyre shop 45 miles away. Not sure if anything has changed since, not looking to argue. Just saying my experience of it.

 

[Forty_Two]

On the phone to Tesla Support this morning I asked them about the ‘keyless’ key and specifically "is the Tesla ‘key’ clone-able just like any other car or is it different" and the answer was that it is no different and Tesla advise using PIN entry and faraday pouches if I am worried.

 

[Adopado]

On the phone to Tesla Support this morning I asked them about the ‘keyless’ key and specifically "is the Tesla ‘key’ clone-able just like any other car or is it different" and the answer was that it is no different and Tesla advise using PIN entry and faraday pouches if I am worried.

What else would an employee say? Things can change at any time and if the customer is worried ... as you are ... then that's a great way of calming you down and without risking liability. Car key clonability IS different ... and I am not particularly worried. Someone may manage it at some point in the future but until that happens ...

 

[Forty_Two]

I've ordered this - maybe over-kill but (IMO) for £22 better safe than sorry

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01M294MGK/ref=pe_27063361_485629781_TE_item

 

[fancealot]

Think it's going a bit tin hat over there, if a thief REALLY wants your car they will get it, I take my wife's Mazda keys upstairs with me on an evening (we are in a back bedroom of the house so far from the front door and it's usually behind the M3 on the drive so can't go anyhere. my keycard is in my wallet and in my wife's purse, both are RFID blockers but because they were coincidentally made that way. our phones also go to bed with us to be charged, I actually feel more secure with the M3 on the drive than I ever did with my mazda 6 with keyless everything.

 

[pgkevet]

I've ordered this - maybe over-kill but (IMO) for £22 better safe than sorry

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01M294MGK/ref=pe_27063361_485629781_TE_item

If you make a hat then the COVID vaccine nanobots can't be activated

 

[Adopado]

If you make a hat then the COVID vaccine nanobots can't be activated

I believe that commercially made, and stylish, EMF protection hats are a thing nowadays, so no need to make your own ... though in an emergency one can always resort to the tried and tested home-made tin foil version.

 

[scdoubleu]

I've ordered this - maybe over-kill but (IMO) for £22 better safe than sorry

Don't forget to put your phone inside it too.

 

[NeilG40]

Don't forget to put your phone inside it too.

And your house door keys just to be on the safe side.