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how to design a charging station that's compatible with all DC fast charging specs

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by gardenyu, May 27, 2014.

  1. gardenyu

    gardenyu New Member

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    So far there are four DC fast charging specs and related connectors, CHAdeMO, Chinese GB, SAE 1772 Combo1 and IEC Combo2. Am I correct? Are there any duplicate or missing connectors here? I didn't buy the IEC specs so cannot tell the whole picture.

    Each one has different connector layout and communication protocols. If you can design a digital interface inside the charging station, and use different connectors/adaptors on the outside of the charging station, technically you may design a global compatible charging station, is it true? am I missing anything?
     
  2. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    You forgot to list the Tesla Supercharger Connector/Protocol; that makes five DC fast charging specs.
     
  3. gardenyu

    gardenyu New Member

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    sure it is another one. But at least it has an adaptor to CHAdeMO already.

    The confusion is really what's the minimum requirement for a DC fast charging station to be able to fast charge any worldwide EV that supports DC charging at all.
     
  4. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    What about this one that I just took a picture of yesterday?


    photo15.jpg
     
  5. mgboyes

    mgboyes Member

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    Tesla already have 2 connectors (though just the one protocol I assume) - the EU and US supercharger connectors are different.

    And There's Mennekes Type 2 DC-Mid (which the EU supercharger connector is similar but not identical to) which is a method of sending DC through a completely standard Type 2 Mennekes Connector at up to 70kW.

    So I think we're at 7 connectors (plus whatever @TonyWilliams's plug is), though rather fewer protocols.
     
  6. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    The connectors don't matter as much as the protocol. SAE 1772 Combo1 and IEC Combo2, Mennekes DC all use the same protocol. CHAdeMO and Chinese GB are on its own. So that's 3 "public" standards you have to support.

    You can throw in Tesla's 2 connectors, but I think it's fair if you assume Tesla will simply make an adapter that will work with at least one of the others.

    The other issue is if your protocol uses isolation (which CHAdeMO does), so you equipment would need a isolation transformer to support CHAdeMO. Then there's the issue of power. Will you be designing for the lowest common denominator (CHAdeMO at 50kW) or for the highest one (with the equipment possibly being under-utilized)?
     
  7. gardenyu

    gardenyu New Member

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    Hi Stopcrazypp:

    Isn't CHAdeMO qualified under IEC62196 already? Why the IEC Combo2 not compatible with the same protocol? Sorry I still haven't bought all the specs yet.

    I'm thinking about stacking multiples. I've designed a 3phase isolated 10kw already. It can be modified to be parallalable (is that a word?) Even though CHAdeMO thinks 50kw is optimum, I want customers to be able to parallel 1-20 power supplies if their local grid can handle. Besides the 10kw itself maybe a portable emergency 3phase supply. I just need to make a separate control board in a box with isolated CAN and PLC interfaces and connects to all power supplies and external connectors, technically it should work. Any comment?


    - - - Updated - - -

    What's this guy....never saw it before.

     
  8. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's qualified under IEC62196, but as you may well know, in practical terms, the protocol is unchanged and incompatible (still CAN bus vs PLC), so you would be treating CHAdeMO as a separate case from SAE/IEC Combo, even though it might be specified under the same document. Basically you can share the power connection, but the protocol for handling the charging will be completely different.

    If you are really serious about this you should really buy all the relevant documents (SAE, IEC, CHAdeMO). I don't have those documents, so I can't really comment on the technical aspects beyond very general points. Maybe the people over at the other thread trying to dissect the supercharger protocol will be of more help if you PM them:
    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/19591-Supercharger-protocol-for-diy-CHAdeMO-adapter/page14
     
  9. gardenyu

    gardenyu New Member

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    I just bought a few.

    IEC61851-23 and 61851-24 for CHAdeMO- this is what the CHAdeMO support told me- good enough. I also have 61851-1.
    SAE 1772 2012
    Chinese GB, it's free anyway.

    I think I still need to buy IEC62196-3 correct? Do I really need 61296-1?
    I also have SAEJ2847, DIN70121 for communication protocols.

    I'll spend sometime to read thru, but it's really confusing already. Has someone studied all the global protocols and connectors and may know what's currently necessary to read?



     

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