Hydrogen vs. Battery

[stopcrazypp]

Chevy Volt uses PM motor, EV1 used induction motor.

I've seen a lot of recent prominent publications (Motor Trend, Autoweek) which say the Volt uses an induction motor. I couldn't find any official GM source that says which it is and it may be a possibility that they changed it from the move from concept to production.

 

[EVNow]

I've seen a lot of recent prominent publications (Motor Trend, Autoweek) which say the Volt uses an induction motor. I couldn't find any official GM source that says which it is and it may be a possibility that they changed it from the move from concept to production.

Volt actually uses two motors.

http://gm-volt.com/2009/11/09/engineering-design-of-the-chevy-volts-two-electric-motors/

I don't know if one in an induction motor ...

 

[stopcrazypp]

Volt actually uses two motors.

http://gm-volt.com/2009/11/09/engineering-design-of-the-chevy-volts-two-electric-motors/

I don't know if one in an induction motor ...

That article is worded quite poorly. I think it is trying to include regen, which technically means the propulsion intent motor is acting as a generator. I'm quite sure that the generator motor has no mechanical connection to the wheels, so it can't provide direct propulsion. I was aware there are technically two motors in the car, one acting primarily as a generator, and the other as the propulsion motor. In the above, I was mainly talking about the propulsion motor, although I suppose there can be confusion about the types from the two motors on board and that the generator should be included.

 

[dpeilow]

Would you buy a hydrogen-powered sedan in 2015 for $50,000? -- Engadget

 

[Tdave]

No way.

 

[vfx]

http://www.thegreencarwebsite.co.uk...-targets-50000-retail-price-for-hydrogen-car/

They won't let it die.

Kinda glad their rep is low right now...

 

[doug]

This one makes no sense to me:
General Motors to establish pilot hydrogen infrastructure in Hawaii - ABG

The one advantage HFCVs supposedly have over EVs is range and here is a situation where range is a non issue.

 

[stopcrazypp]

This one makes no sense to me:
General Motors to establish pilot hydrogen infrastructure in Hawaii - ABG

The one advantage HFCVs supposedly have over EVs is range and here is a situation where range is a non issue.

I think there is another issue mentioned by one of the ABG commenters in on of the hydrogen articles. He termed it as "geography anxiety".

Put simply, the issue is the proximity of fueling stations. Most drivers today have a gas station within 10 miles from where they live, and even if HFCVs gets 300 miles per tank, it's inconvenient if people have to travel 100 miles just to fuel up. It is virtually impossible to achieve this kind of density in a reasonable time frame in the US. So having an island like Hawaii allows them to have a mini market where they can achieve this.

 

[JRP3]

This one makes no sense to me:
General Motors to establish pilot hydrogen infrastructure in Hawaii - ABG

The one advantage HFCVs supposedly have over EVs is range and here is a situation where range is a non issue.

I'm not sure if hydrogen and sense every meet up. Just like PBP they want to say they can "cover" an entire state/nation, even if it's tiny.

 

[doug]

Horizon's H-Cell 2.0 hydrogen fuel cell for R/C cars now shipping (video) - Engadget

I'm sure we've talked about this hydrogen R/C before, but I always think it illustrates well the issues of hydrogen versus battery.

They try to hide it in the specs, but if you do the math you find:

Energy stored in the battery: 21 Wh (45 - 2*12)
Battery weight: 173 g (890 - 717)
Mass of Fuel cell with H2 cartridges: 580 g (400 + 2*90)

So it's easy to see you'd be much better off ditching the fuel cell system all together and perhaps just adding a second battery.

 

[vfx]

http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/news13293.html

Proton Energy Systems in Wallingford broke ground last week on the first connection of its planned Hydrogen Highway, a network of nine stations stretching from Maine to Miami where hydrogen cars can be refueled.

 

[vfx]

http://www.thegreencarwebsite.co.uk.../kia-plans-10000-fuel-cell-vehicles-for-2015/

Kia is looking to have 10,000 fuel cell vehicles on the road by 2015, according to motoring mag, What Car.

It's amazing these little trial programs are half of Tesla's first S goal.

 

[stopcrazypp]

http://www.thegreencarwebsite.co.uk.../kia-plans-10000-fuel-cell-vehicles-for-2015/


It's amazing these little trial programs are half of Tesla's first S goal.

Keep in mind Tesla's goal is annual, their goal is 10k by 2015 (they will start with 1-2k from now to 2012).

 

[dpeilow]

Daimler and Toyota to Develop Fuel Cell Cars

The two carmakers moving closer to one another is also made possible by Tesla, the American electric vehicle manufacturer. Last year, Daimler acquired a 10 percent in Tesla Motors, while only weeks ago Toyota announced a partnership with Elon Musk's company for the revival of the former New United Motor Manufacturing Inc. (NUMMI) plant in Fremont, California.

The dirty scoundrels...


Toyota and Daimler: Possible Venture For Fuel Cell Technology

If such a venture would take place, it would be a relevant step with regards to the hydrogen vehicle program of each company and it might possibly bring more jobs back to NUMMI.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Daimler and Toyota to Develop Fuel Cell Cars
The dirty scoundrels...
Toyota and Daimler: Possible Venture For Fuel Cell Technology

Heard of this a while ago. This was just an unconfirmed rumor right now started with a single report sourced from some supposed insider. I don't think it is that likely.

 

[dpeilow]

Turning water into jobs. How eco-car fuels a city's hopes

How the fuels of the future will find their rightful places

 

[malcolm]

Turning water into jobs. How eco-car fuels a city's hopes

How the fuels of the future will find their rightful places

There are lots of trade-offs, but the fundamental problem remains; creating and moving hydrogen can be energy intensive, and remove much, if not all, of its green advantages.

The real issues with hydrogen fuel celled cars are not whether they work – they do – but whether the fuel delivery infrastructure can ever be made viable. It presents an awesome obstacle. The wholesale conversion of the West's current system for delivering fuel would be absurdly costly, and require a vast public subsidy; one unlikely to be forthcoming as governments try to tame their prodigious overspending and spiralling defects.

Even if we consider it necessary to go beyond a Home+Work recharging infrastructure, as the mature technology Electrification is just so much simpler, cheaper and more energy efficient than "Hydrification".

It's depressing that this VHS/Betamax thing is still dragging on. The general public thinks it still wants liquid fuels and the joyful experience of filling stations.

Mass market EVs can't come soon enough.

 

[doug]

Same guys that make that H2 RC car.

Horizon's Cheap Personal Fuel Cell Now On Sale—Charge Gadgets Cleanly and Cheaply - Gizmodo.com

 

[JRP3]

Wow, you can "recharge it" at home with only water and electricity! That's a real improvement over rechargeable batteries, which only need electricity

 

[stopcrazypp]

Same guys that make that H2 RC car.
Horizon's Cheap Personal Fuel Cell Now On Sale—Charge Gadgets Cleanly and Cheaply - Gizmodo.com

Many of the tech blogs didn't take the time, but if you can easily find brand name battery based options under $50. Each "hydroSTIK"has slightly more energy than a 3000mah 18650 cell. And there is a separate "hydroFILL" system that is required to refill the cartridges, while batteries can be refilled using the same system.