Hydrogen vs. Battery

[TEG]

http://www.metricmind.com/data/bevs_vs_fcvs.pdf

 

[JRP3]

Good read, I'm sure I'll be referring to it in future arguments.

 

[vfx]

New York 2009: And the World Green Car of the Year is ...


Arrrrg!

Among those the top three vote-getters from the overall jury were the Honda FCX Clarity, Toyota iQ and Mitsubishi iMiEV. The overall winner turned out to be the fuel cell powered Clarity.

 

[JRP3]

It's like a beast that won't die!

 

[graham]

DOE announces $41.9 million investment into fuel cell technology

The Feds aren't done with hydrogen just yet. In an effort to "[lay] the foundation for a green energy economy," the Department of Energy has just announced a $41.9 million dollar investment in fuel cell technology using funds from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (a.k.a. the Stimulus Bill). The first industries expected to benefit from this funding will be emergency backup power systems and material handling applications, better known as forklifts. The DOE forecasts nearly 1,000 new fuel cell systems will be deployed immediately.

 

[TEG]

GM looks to the future with hydrogen fuel cells : Business : The Buffalo News

 

[mt2]

GM looks to the future with hydrogen fuel cells : Business : The Buffalo News

GM has a death wish.

 

[vfx]

More PR intended to keep GM's name in the news as a "green" company working on the future. As in "we deserve the loan/bailout".

 

[JRP3]

It looks as if I need to start actively fighting this madness since I live in NY.
GM wants New York state to lead in fuel cell cars | cell, fuel, new - Local News - WRGB CBS 6 Albany

Daniel O'Connell of the auto maker's fuel cell lab in Honeoye Falls, near Rochester, says Friday that GM is working with state energy officials on developing a series of filling stations across the state, with the hope they will be in place before widespread production of fuel-cell vehicles in the next five or six years.

 

[JRP3]

I've decided to try and do something about it:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/ener...ed-hydrogen-hype-lets-do-something-about.html

 

[TEG]

Check out the warped "Percent Energy Efficiency by Powertrain Type" chart here:

Toyota Targets Drastic Cut in Fuel-Cell Costs by 2015

(67% "Well to Tank" efficiency for Hydrogen ??? )

 

[JRP3]

In addition to targeting a 90% cut in cost over the next six years, the auto maker is looking for a 50%-100% increase in power density

Gee why didn't they just target 100% cut in cost and 200% increase in power density? Just as likely.

 

[vfx]

Check out the warped "Percent Energy Efficiency by Powertrain Type" chart here:
)

What's wrong with Hydrogen

#5. You have to assume that competing technologies will not improve.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Check out the warped "Percent Energy Efficiency by Powertrain Type" chart here:

Toyota Targets Drastic Cut in Fuel-Cell Costs by 2015

(67% "Well to Tank" efficiency for Hydrogen ??? )

Probably natural gas reformation, electrolysis would be much worst.

And for EVs they are probably using older natural gas plants.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Honda May Develop Plug-In Autos as Obama Alters U.S. Policy - Bloomberg.com

Honda finally relents and say they are looking at plug-in hybrids rather than stubbornly staying only with hydrogen. So at least there is some progress.

Greg Blencoe of "For Hydrogen Advocates Only" blog (seems like he changed the name to "Hydrogen Car Revolution" now) has always argued Honda's reluctance to approach plug-ins and to stick with hydrogen is the strongest argument for hydrogen. This kind of news puts a big dent in that argument.

 

[JRP3]

Former President George W. Bush in 2003 committed $1.2 billion in federal funds to a 5-year program aimed at speeding development of hydrogen as a vehicle fuel as part of efforts to wean the U.S. from its reliance on imported oil.
So far, President Barack Obama has announced no new federal effort to promote the fuel, and federal funding for hydrogen for transportation use in the 2009 budget dropped to $177.7 million this year from $211.9 million, according to the Department of Energy Web site.

This is the sort of change I was hoping for.

 

[vfx]

This is great news!

Thank you Mr President.

 

[EVnut]

What's wrong with Hydrogen

#5. You have to assume that competing technologies will not improve.

Better than that, I think you have to assume that competing technologies (really, that is not plural) will get *worse.*

 

[TEG]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/08/science/earth/08energy.htmNYtimes: US drops research into fuel cells for cars

 

[graham]

This is a good sign.