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Hydrogen vs. Battery
- Thread starter siry
- Start date
Interesting technology. I don't think it's enough to make fuel cells practical for transportation, but if people insist on building them it at least gives a way to avoid GHG consequences from the methane conversion, and provides a useful industrial byproduct:
Cheap and clean: Australian company creates hydrogen with near-zero emissions
Cheap and clean: Australian company creates hydrogen with near-zero emissions
I saw a Mirai driving through Sonoma earlier this week. It had promo decals all over it, so I imagine it was a Toyota press car. Took me by surprise, though.
BluestarE3
Active Member
Hmm... I wonder if it's the same one I saw in Berkeley Tuesday evening. I only caught a brief glimpse of it pulling out of a side street, but the huge gill openings were a dead giveaway.
CuriousG
Active Member
Are you sure you didn't see this?
They do share similarities.
- Mythical creature as in rarely seen.
- It's byproduct is seen as magical
I was following one on 280 for a while in late July.
Cross my heart, I was struck by the offensively ugly car in front of me. Then I got close enough to see that it was a mirai. In a sea of ugly vehicles, one needs to be outstandingly hideous to be called out on looks alone.
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I've barely skimmed the 87 pages of this thread and have always subscribed to the belief that a vehicle powered by on-board hydrogen is lunacy.
That said (and forgive me if this has been discussed upthread and I missed it), it seems to me that there is a role for using hydrogen to help replace ICE vehicles through the use of hydrogen-powered microgrids that are used to charge BEV's. Stationary hydrogen powered microgrids are increasingly common, and are ideally fueled by reforming hydrogen that would otherwise be wasted (e.g., a methane waste product, etc.).
It seems that the hydrogen people should give up on trying to produce a nationwide hydrogen refueling infrastructure and instead focus on stationary microgrids that are then used to charge BEVs. I think that's a compelling use for hydrogen
That said (and forgive me if this has been discussed upthread and I missed it), it seems to me that there is a role for using hydrogen to help replace ICE vehicles through the use of hydrogen-powered microgrids that are used to charge BEV's. Stationary hydrogen powered microgrids are increasingly common, and are ideally fueled by reforming hydrogen that would otherwise be wasted (e.g., a methane waste product, etc.).
It seems that the hydrogen people should give up on trying to produce a nationwide hydrogen refueling infrastructure and instead focus on stationary microgrids that are then used to charge BEVs. I think that's a compelling use for hydrogen
Forgive me if this has been posted before, but Marc Tarpenning (one of the founders of Tesla) described his analysis of the various energy alternatives, including Hydrogen. The analysis starts about 13 minutes in. Eye opening how inefficient some of the parts of the energy chain are.
Toyota Mirai sets 24-hour electric mileage record
1) It's not electric.
2) It only just beats the 17 year old Mitsubishi FTO-EV record set on a track.
3) It's an average speed of 60 mph set on public roads and includes the stops. Smells fishy.
4) Guinness doesn't endorse records on public roads with a speed or time element.
1) It's not electric.
2) It only just beats the 17 year old Mitsubishi FTO-EV record set on a track.
3) It's an average speed of 60 mph set on public roads and includes the stops. Smells fishy.
4) Guinness doesn't endorse records on public roads with a speed or time element.
They should try to beat the LA-NY time (58h:55m for 3011 miles) of Tesla:
http://jalopnik.com/they-drove-a-tesla-from-la-to-new-york-in-a-record-58-h-1699782187
Oh, sorry they can't make that trip as there are no H2 stations on they way :O
So much about the long range viability of the solution...
http://jalopnik.com/they-drove-a-tesla-from-la-to-new-york-in-a-record-58-h-1699782187
Oh, sorry they can't make that trip as there are no H2 stations on they way :O
So much about the long range viability of the solution...
Oh, they could do it. However, it would require a large diesel truck to follow them carrying the hydrogen and 10,000 psi compressor on board. Hopefully they would see the irony in that method before seriously considering it.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
They did exactly that in previous demonstrations (Daimler did the same):
LA 2007: Toyota Fuel Cell Highlander runs 2300 miles from Fairbanks to Vancouver
Mercedes-Benz B-Class F-CELL en route in the USA: About circumnavigators, stacks and roadsters: the F-CELL World Drive heads through North America | marsMediaSite
We recently saw more nonsense about renewables powered hydrogen filling stations being the way forward, with the implication that the inefficiencies don't matter if the energy source is on site and renewable.
Well I ran the numbers for an average supermarket filling station in the UK using industry data and even I was shocked by the results.
Turns out you need 10 (yes TEN) huge 4.2 MW state of the art wind turbines in order to satisfy demand from one hydrogen filling station. The end result would cost you £70 million in capital cost for the equipment.
Would someone please care to check my working?
Well I ran the numbers for an average supermarket filling station in the UK using industry data and even I was shocked by the results.
Turns out you need 10 (yes TEN) huge 4.2 MW state of the art wind turbines in order to satisfy demand from one hydrogen filling station. The end result would cost you £70 million in capital cost for the equipment.
Would someone please care to check my working?
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The other thing is that the stats I have for petrol filling station use are an average over the whole year. If there is a seasonal variation over months (seems likely) then they are unlikely to be able to store enough H2 on site during the slow month to accommodate the busy months, so the peak generation requirement might be higher.
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