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I am now planning to get the full self-driving option and here is why

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by diplomat33, Feb 9, 2018.

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  1. N5329K

    N5329K Active Member

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    Optimism is a good thing and can be hard to come by. As for Connecticut, they salt their roads in winter. Eventually, a car used on those salted roads has a difficult time casting a shadow. Maybe they don't salt the roads in Sweden? Now there's a reason for optimism.
    Robin
     
  2. dampfred

    dampfred Member

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    Unfortunately they do. But cars can still last 20+ years. Most end their days because of mileage/costly repairs that has nothing to do with climate and salt. Just googled it and our average age of cars on the road is right over 10 years. So die hard optimist that I’ll be able to keep the car until FSD is out. Keep your fingers crossed for me! ;)
     
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  3. Steve Martin

    Steve Martin Member

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    There’s a big difference between FSD at 25 mph in a small city with LIDAR constructed HD maps versus FSD at 80 mph across the entire US without entire coverage of HD maps. Local cities have approved FSD within their cities at low speeds, but when will the federal government approve FSD across the entire US, or all states approve it across the entire state. That’s a big difference to what Waymo and Cruise are doing now. I agree that what Waymo and Cruise are doing is impressive.
     
  4. diplomat33

    diplomat33 Member

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    Yes, there is a big difference between the two. But considering the progress that Waymo and Cruise have made, it makes me optimistic about FSD. I guess this is a glass half full/half empty kinda argument. You seem to saying "true FSD at 80 mph across entire US without perfect HD maps is a lot harder than what Waymo has done, therefore I think FSD is still many years away.". I look at it as "WOW. If they can do FSD in the city, it proves the concept and it is progress, so we must be closer to true FSD than I thought!"
     
  5. Dr. J

    Dr. J Member

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    Technically, we loaned them $1,000 and received an option to buy a really cool car at an unknown date in the future. But as unsecured creditors, that loan could have turned into a "gift" at any point along the way. The money for FSD sounds nonrefundable.

    I respect all opinions offered here; it's helped me in my thinking about FSD. I still have time to see what develops before I order. One thing that's unclear to me is: what ALL am I getting with my $5K EAP, and what ADDITIONAL things will I get from pre-paid FSD? The feature set of EAP doesn't seem entirely settled with the vague "future OTA upgrades" promise. Not being entirely certain what EAP consists of makes it harder to judge whether FSD is worth the cost.

    I'm leaning toward EAP only.
     
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  6. diplomat33

    diplomat33 Member

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    #46 diplomat33, Feb 10, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
    EAP gives you the following features:
    - Traffic Aware Cruise Control (car maintains safe distance from car in front)
    - Auto Steer (car stays in the lane for you on the highway)
    - Auto Park (car parks itself)
    - Auto lane change (car can automatically changes lanes on the highway with a flick of the turn signal stalk)
    - Summon (have the car move forward or backwards to come to you, not yet available in the Model 3 AFAIK)

    Right now, pre-paying for FSD gives you nothing. But when FSD is released, you will get an OTA update that will make your car full self-driving. You will be able to input almost any destination and the car will drive itself to that destination without any intervention on your part.
     
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  7. Dr. J

    Dr. J Member

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    Summon is the only missing EAP feature currently for Model 3? Thanks for the info!
     
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  8. josher32

    josher32 Member

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    Eventuallly once EAP is fully released Auto lane change won’t require using the turn signal. Current state is you have to use this. Another feature promised is that it will take exits and transition from one freeway to another.
     
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  9. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    I bought FSD for my 3. Not because I think my car will ever drive itself, but I wanted access to the additional 4 cameras that the upgrade includes (8 active cameras vs 4 for EAP). I figure even if the car can’t drive itself, that will probably make for a rock solid Level 3 experience. Now, this is a gamble that they will eventually start activating more that the 2 cameras in use currently, but I figure we have to be getting close to that step over a year from AP2 being released.

    Also, at some point people with leased 2016 cars might start asking for refunds on the $3K, so Tesla will need to start releasing some differentiating features to try and avoid that.

    I am gambling that I won’t total my car in the meantime, and that the eventual feature release will be so worth the upgrade that Tesla raises the cost. I am also gambling that they won’t pull an AP2 style “hardware upgrade would require a spinal transplant” move so you should just buy a new car to get FSD. Tesla has done both unexpected price increases and hardware changes with no upgrade path in the past so I figure I have a 50/50 chance I will “win”.
     
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  10. C141medic

    C141medic Supporting Member

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    So, to be clear, if you get EAP there are only 4 cameras “active?” I thought the hardware already included 8 cameras and they were all active (with the exception of the cabin facing camera in the rear view mirror)?
     
  11. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    All the cameras are installed and fully functional on all cars. They aren't being used to generate commands, however.

    At the moment, the computers are only using the front three on any AP2 car - until last month, it was only the two main front cameras, but the newly activated automatic rain sensing wipers use the front wide angle.

    eAP will eventually use the two fender cameras to detect cars before moving between lanes.

    FSD needs the B-Pillar cameras to check for other cars at intersections, and the front and rear wide angles for parking and tight space maneuvering.

    Given that the center screen has always shown the rear wide angle and that the new rain sensing wipers use the front wide angle on all cars, with and without eAP and FSD, it's clear that there's some flexibility in the 4 cameras and 8 cameras language they used.
     
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  12. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    Here is the wording on the FSD option for the Model S. (This level of detail was not on the configurator for the 3, so I suppose it could be different, but I would guess we are buying the same software on the S, X or 3 when we pick this option):

    Screenshot 2018-02-10 11.20.30.png
     
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  13. diplomat33

    diplomat33 Member

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    The hardware includes all 8 cameras, but they are not all active. EAP only uses 4 active cameras, but FSD will use 8.
     
  14. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    At least in our AP1 S, I'd say Summon is useless and Self Park is somewhere between poor and useless. TACC and lane keeping is wonderful though.
     
  15. Cheburashka

    Cheburashka Member

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    "FSD" option doesn't give you more access to cameras or change the way the car drives on AP.

    There is no evidence that Tesla FSD exists even in Alpha at this point. Musk has a history of over promising, so take whatever he claims with a grain of salt.

    If Tesla really did have something in Alpha, they'd be quick to host events showing it off and collecting preorders for it.
     
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  16. diplomat33

    diplomat33 Member

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    [QUOTE="Cheburashka, post: 2559083, member: 71368"
    If Tesla really did have something in Alpha, they'd be quick to host events showing it off and collecting preorders for it.[/QUOTE]

    Actually, they did, in 2016 with the FSD video.
     
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  17. davidc18

    davidc18 Active Member

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    My prediction after watching this fiasco slowly unfold is that FSD is never happening with the current hardware (v2 or 2.5). In this case I hope I am wrong but it is not looking good at this point.
     
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  18. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    If that ends up being the case, then I should be able to easily get my $3000 back. I think it’s more likely Tesla will release at least one differentiating feature for the FSD buyers, just so they won’t have to do mass refunds.

    Musk over promises regularly, but he doesn’t usually promise complete vaporware, which is what you are implying.
     
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  19. Cheburashka

    Cheburashka Member

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    The 2016 "FSD video" is a marketing video. We don't know enough details to prove that it was actually FSD or just a preprogrammed route.

    The first Model S owners who were able to order FSD as an option are going to be coming off their leases soon. Do you think they will be getting their money back?
     
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  20. R.S

    R.S Active Member

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    A coast to coast drive is basically the easiest thing you can do in terms of self driving.

    Dealing with congested cities, cyclists, pedestrians, cats and dogs, traffic lights and lane changes. That's the real challenge. Going 60 on the highway is pretty tame in comparison.

    So despite this coast to coast drive, FSD will still take a long time...
     
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