I live in a condo. The main breaker is only 70A. Now what? [Resolved]

[andy92782]

It's laser etched into the plastic; not written on. Elon Musk has nothing to do with it personally.

I know, I was only kidding.. I should have put a "" in there.

My utility (SCE) has a $500 rebate towards the installation of a hard-wired L2 charger, so the price of the wall connector is essentially nullified. May as well go for that instead of a simple 14-30 socket install. This way I can keep the UMC in the car.

 

[GWord]

Wow.. Well, in Elon's defense he's fairly preoccupied with getting cars built and shipped. I doubt he has much time to sit there with a Sharpie to autograph a bunch of wall chargers. Looks like I'll have to buy one along with everyone else and then try to sell the gifted one later...

You might consider having your electrician install a 14-30 outlet with a smidge of extra wire length and you can easily retrofit the wall connector when it comes in. You’d use the UMC in the interim.

 

[yuhong]

FYI, I have done a little more research on the Challenger panels. While I still don't have definitive information, it sounds like there are various series of Challenger panels based on different designs. It would seem that the concerns are with the panels based on the Federal Pacific design, but later panels were based on a design that is compatible with what are now Eaton BR breakers. Anecdotal information may indicate to me that these BR based designs (which is what I think the OP has) are not the ones with the fire risk.

But take this with a grain of salt. It is just information I have found online. It sounds like there is a lot of confusion out there.

Challenger panel insurance denials

I just wanted to call out that it is possible that both the main service entrance gear (HOA owned presumably) and the panel in the OP's unit may be completely fine (not a known hazard). More research may be needed.

If these panels and breakers are not a known hazard then it may not make financial sense to push for replacing them at this time. Also, I could see logic around replacing breakers (very quick and easy to do and often times inexpensive) but leaving the same panel(s) in place. Fresh modern breakers may provide some level of comfort without the cost of panel replacement.

Seems that the Challenger FPE design breakers do better than the original FPE breakers:
http://www.fpe-info.org/Hazardous FPE 171110.pdf
They are probably the newer design after these FPE breakers regained UL listing. While they are better than the old FPE breakers, they are not as good as a modern one.

 

[eprosenx]

Seems that the Challenger FPE design breakers do better than the original FPE breakers:
http://www.fpe-info.org/Hazardous FPE 171110.pdf
They are probably the newer design after these FPE breakers regained UL listing. While they are better than the old FPE breakers, they are not as good as a modern one.

That is a great document! Thanks for linking to it!

My interpretation of that document though is that it only covers the "Stab-Lok" style panels (under many different names). It looks like the OP has a totally different style panel. I do not believe this document covers the OP's panel at all.

 

[andy92782]

That is a great document! Thanks for linking to it!

My interpretation of that document though is that it only covers the "Stab-Lok" style panels (under many different names). It looks like the OP has a totally different style panel. I do not believe this document covers the OP's panel at all.

OP here. Like I said, my condo development has over 200 units and they're almost 30 years old. If there was a problem with the electrical infrastructure, we would have known by now.

In other news, the DCC box and the Tesla wall connector are on their way. Surprisingly, the manufacturer of the DCC contacted me and said my installation would be the first of its kind in the LA area (!). They were very excited about it and even talked about making a press release... Yeah, I dunno.. I just want to be able to charge at 240V and live an otherwise quiet life.

 

[yuhong]

As for the DCC box, I think the idea does make sense when you consider that you can lower the car's power consumption using the J1772 protocol, but the current product unfortunately don't do that.

 

[dccorby]

Update from OP: After two weeks of waffling, the City of Tustin finally approved the plans for my DCC installation. Hallelujah! Now I need to see about ordering a Tesla Wall connector... Anyone know how long it takes Tesla to ship wall connectors after 2 referrals? I just got my second!

Hey Andy, glad you got approval from the city. DCC-9-30A is what you need.

 

[andy92782]

Problem solved. DCC-9-30A and Tesla wall connector installed. Stick a fork in this one... it's done!

 

[Big Earl]

Great outcome! I'm glad you were persistent and got the city on board with your plan.

 

[andy92782]

Very happy with how things turned out. The DCC was installed into the wall just below the subpanel where it intercepts the conduit feeding it. Maybe later I'll try to experiment cranking up the electrical load to the point where the DCC shuts off the charger. I have a feeling that if I'm careful enough I can probably run the AC and charge the car at the same time - just thinking back to earlier in the thread where my previous max average current on a hot summer day was about 19A). 56A is the limit.

 

[eprosenx]

Very happy with how things turned out. The DCC was installed into the wall just below the subpanel where it intercepts the conduit feeding it. Maybe later I'll try to experiment cranking up the electrical load to the point where the DCC shuts off the charger. I have a feeling that if I'm careful enough I can probably run the AC and charge the car at the same time - just thinking back to earlier in the thread where my previous max average current on a hot summer day was about 19A). 56A is the limit.

I love it! So glad you got it figured out

Question: Why did you go with the DCC-9 instead of the DCC-10?

You had one breaker you could have tandemed up if I remember correctly. Seems like not having to intercept the main power feed would be less labor.

So my math is as follows: You have a 70a main feed. The DCC shuts off the car at 80% of that, so 56 amps (as you stated). The car will draw 24 amps max. So that gives you 32 amps to use for the rest of the house before it kicks off the car. I think your AC will easily fit within that.

Note that presumably the "kick off" is based on EITHER of your two phase legs being over 56 amps. So if you have some larger 120v loads and say two are one the same phase leg, you might consider re-arranging them in the panel to be on opposite phase legs to keep both under 56 amps even with the car at full speed charging.

It is also worth noting that you can crank the car down to a slower charge speed manually in the car (from the display screen) during the summer if you want to charge and run the AC at the same time (normally you will likely be charging overnight, so even 16a or less at 240v is enough for most folks).

I am curious: If the DCC cuts off the car and then turns it back on later, will the M3 actually start charging again on its own? I am not sure it actually will, so be careful if you are depending on this (actually, if you could test this and report back it would be great! - I think I have heard that if the car falls asleep when there is no power and then the power comes back, perhaps it won't realize it and start charging? I really don't know)

 

[eprosenx]

Problem solved. DCC-9-30A and Tesla wall connector installed. Stick a fork in this one... it's done!
View attachment 356145 View attachment 356146 View attachment 356147

Also, your electrician is FANTASTIC! He/She did an great job bending that conduit. All one piece!

I am curious what the fitting sticking out the bottom of the Wall Connector is? Is it some kind of adapter to go from the EMT metal conduit to the plastic Wall Connector housing so that you don't mess up the Wall Connector threads?

 

[brkaus]

Extra points if you add yet another current sensor (on the main), a raspberry pi, and a rs-485 adaptor connected to the port on the WC. Use this to throttle the WC when the current on the main approaches some threshold. Could keep the DCC-9 from ever tripping and still optimize the car charging, unless there was some quick current change. Then the DCC would kick in for safety.

New Wall Connector load sharing protocol

 

[SMAlset]

@andy92782 , I am SO happy for you. I started reading your thread when you first posted and for a while there it didn’t look good and I thought it might not happen. Love seeing your car charging in your garage now. Welcome to the “charge at Home” Tesla family!

 

[eprosenx]

Extra points if you add yet another current sensor (on the main), a raspberry pi, and a rs-485 adaptor connected to the port on the WC. Use this to throttle the WC when the current on the main approaches some threshold. Could keep the DCC-9 from ever tripping and still optimize the car charging, unless there was some quick current change. Then the DCC would kick in for safety.

New Wall Connector load sharing protocol

Yeah, or Tesla should just make that as a UL listed product! Avoid the need for the DCC altogether!

 

[andy92782]

I love it! So glad you got it figured out

Question: Why did you go with the DCC-9 instead of the DCC-10?

Six to one, half dozen of the other? I suppose if the existing panel had additional room for breakers (without going tandem) it would have made it easier to go DCC-10 but otherwise I don't think the overall amount of work would have been much different.

It is also worth noting that you can crank the car down to a slower charge speed manually in the car (from the display screen) during the summer if you want to charge and run the AC at the same time (normally you will likely be charging overnight, so even 16a or less at 240v is enough for most folks).

I agree. I'll have to experiment. Thinking back to my earlier posts where I mentioned my average current was only around 19A even on hot summer days with solid AC use, I bet I'll be fine.

I am curious: If the DCC cuts off the car and then turns it back on later, will the M3 actually start charging again on its own? I am not sure it actually will, so be careful if you are depending on this (actually, if you could test this and report back it would be great! - I think I have heard that if the car falls asleep when there is no power and then the power comes back, perhaps it won't realize it and start charging? I really don't know)

An interesting question. Maybe one day I'll find out.

 

[andy92782]

Also, your electrician is FANTASTIC! He/She did an great job bending that conduit. All one piece!

I am curious what the fitting sticking out the bottom of the Wall Connector is? Is it some kind of adapter to go from the EMT metal conduit to the plastic Wall Connector housing so that you don't mess up the Wall Connector threads?

I'm guessing it is. I'll be honest and admit I wasn't watching too closely when they made the conduit.

Here's a close-up of what they did as well as a final picture of the installation after my electrician had his drywall guy come out to clean up / patch up the hole they cut around the DCC.

 

[andy92782]

Extra points if you add yet another current sensor (on the main), a raspberry pi, and a rs-485 adaptor connected to the port on the WC. Use this to throttle the WC when the current on the main approaches some threshold. Could keep the DCC-9 from ever tripping and still optimize the car charging, unless there was some quick current change. Then the DCC would kick in for safety.

New Wall Connector load sharing protocol

I've totally thought about this. Ideally I'd figure out a way to use the MCU in the DCC itself to output serial port commands either directly to the Tesla WC or to an intermediary like the RPi. Have the DCC dial back the current on demand.

 

[eprosenx]

I'm guessing it is. I'll be honest and admit I wasn't watching too closely when they made the conduit.

Here's a close-up of what they did as well as a final picture of the installation after my electrician had his drywall guy come out to clean up / patch up the hole they cut around the DCC.
View attachment 356297 View attachment 356298

Nice! Glad they patched the sheetrock. That is a code requirement to keep the garage fire rating (I was going to mention that from the previous pictures).

That is some kind of size reducer bushing, but I have never seen one like that! The Wall Connector is a 1" threaded hole. Is that conduit 1/2in or 3/4's?

Now I want to know what kind of fitting that is... My google fu is failing me! I just used one like this:

https://www.garvinindustries.com/st...tainless-steel-reducing-bushings/rb-150125-ss

But I did not thread it directly into the Wall Connector.

 

[andy92782]

Hey all, OP here. Quick update.

Now that summer has fully set in and the temps are up, I've started using the central AC in my condo. When the AC system starts up, the inrush current usually trips the DCC. I guess that means it works. The downside is that it basically makes charging impossible whenever the AC is on because the 15-minute timeout cycle of the DCC usually aligns with the duty cycle of the AC system.

When the AC is running, I can start charging the car and the DCC won't trip. It only trips when the reverse happens (the car is already charging and the AC system's startup current surge trips it).

At this point I'm starting to think about possible solutions. The AC system is very old (30 years). I haven't replaced it because it still works, and why fix what isn't broken? A friend of mine suggested a startup capacitor kit. Seems a lot cheaper than replacing the whole system. Any tips?