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Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by alehbaba, Sep 29, 2017.
Porsche Mission E May Upset Tesla Model S Sales
love the lines and the look.
Aren't we all a little tired of these 'Tesla Killer' articles about cars or technology that hasn't even come out yet? Make it a reality and then we can talk about comparisons.
But I will agree, that is one beautiful car!
That car is nothing more than a prototype for the car show rounds. The likelihood of it coming out in 2019 or even being priced at $85k is fantasy.
oh look Tesla Killer #1017. So far, the auto industry is 0 for 1016, but maybe this one is different ...
I have to wonder why people post such negative response to this.? I mean we get you love your tesla and all but lets face it..when the real competition comes(say 5 yrs) it will be a great thing for all buyers. Yea the whole tesla killer thing is silly for sure and right now we all know tesla is the only full ev sports/stylish game in the mix....But if porsche can even pull it off at 100k it will be cool( and at that price offer 400miles!....who knows but it looks way sportier then the s model.
I think it's a beautiful car and really hope it comes to fruition in big #s. Knowing what we all know about the benefits of EV driving dynamics vs. ICE, it's clear that the Mission E would seriously cannibalize Porsche's other offerings if they put forward their best effort. And that's the prize, to transition away from ICE as quickly as possible. As for any of these being Tesla killers - that's laughable. "Tesla joiners" or "ICE Killers" is what they really are. Again, this is the goal; and something to celebrate as Tesla fans, not fear.
I don't think anyone has a negative response to a competitor. What people don't like is repeating of made up prices and production schedules all the while listing it as a "Tesla killer".
It's not negativity it's honestly and a pragmatic view. Tesla has done most of the hard work and laid the ground work for the rest of these companies to finally catch up and they still haven't. Every single car manufacturer is still light years behind as far as range, style, and technology is concerned. Sure the Leaf looks great on paper but I still can't Supercharge it.
Competition is great, but let's face it, without a comparable SC network none of these will ever be considered 'competition'...at least by me.
I don't think it's about the love for Tesla, but Elon is in this for other reasons. With his passion comes elegance at different levels. Any other manufacture must deal with profits above all other concerns. I'm not saying Tesla does not have this as a consideration, it's not what drives them. Pun intended. They are being driven by an amazing mathematician. I just don't see that kind of drive within Porsche. You can say that Steve Jobs was behind an amazing smart phone and later in years others followed. I still thing the I phone is in a class all by itself.
I'm also looking forward to Porsche Mission e becoming a reality and hopefully that happens sooner than later. Even though they many not have the vast supercharger network, they're at least bringing something new and innovative to the table with ~15 minute to almost complete charging which is a game changer. If the competition arrives to the market soon and ends up delivering on its lofty claims, the better it is Tesla owners since Tesla will start upping its game as well.
I'm getting tired of hearing non EV owners boasting about their V8 engines which happened to me when I was getting my car windows tinted and I didn't want to waste my energy to rationally explain why EV's are better since it would just fall on deaf ears.
Today while I was cruising with autopilot on, a jerk had the audacity to not just pass me in his obnoxious sounding clunky truck but the exhaust kept blowing clouds of black smoke every time he pushed on the gas. Pretty soon, the whole road was filled with black smog. I turned on the HEPA filtration and before I could catch him and blow past him, he exited the highway. It's morons like these that need to have ICE cars taken away and the only way to do that is to root for the competition to bring out their EV's faster and make ICE cars obsolete!
It looks good. But don't compare 2019 Porsche with 2017 Tesla. That's not even close to fair comparison. 2019 model S may be vastly different then what we see today.
of COURSE more competition would be great for everyone! but we are sick and tired of millions of promises and zero actual competitors on sale let alone on the road. i'm not criticizing the idea of the car. i'm criticizing putting ANY stock at ALL in more "tesla killer" PROMISES. post an article about a car for sale that can be bought, then i'll get excited.
Looks great, but its a bit optimistic to expect it can do everything mentioned in the article in a year. But who knows, Audi has been making some good strides in this space so they may well be able to pull it off. Lets see
They have also been working at it since 2015 with the first eTron show models.
Mission E looks awesome! Hopefully the superchargers are opened up to other cars by then and you can go anywhere with it.
I did market research a couple of weeks ago as a Tesla owner and was a bit disappointed with the other owners discussing how they didn’t want to fraternize at joint charging stops with non-tesla owners.
These would be BEV owners that could potentially share new experiences with their other brands and would undoubtedly have enthusiasm for the EV movement - i just didn’t get the attitude they had.
My heart will always be with tesla but i will always consider other EV’s as long as they are compelling (and can supercharge)
I’m developing an EV in my basement that will cost $64,999, will go 402 miles on a single charge and do that in 14 minutes.
We’re still in the very early design phases right now, but it’s due out in late 2019 or maybe early 2020.
I think because everyone is tired of watching automakers float futuristic concept cars that are a decade away from production and pretending it's going to eat tesla's lunch next year.
Its basically vapour ware trying to get their own loyal customers to wait for them and not jump ship.
The Porsche will be neat if it happens.
I was in a Porsche dealer and the sales representative kept saying its over for tesla blah blah blah. I thought it was funny. I asked how you charge a mission e and he said 'we have a built in charging infrastructure in dealership locations'
I just smiled.
1. There are like 11 Porsche dealers on earth
2. Anyone who has charged at a Tesla store knows what a nightmare that can be with the service department filling them up all the time etc.
All in all the big companies are late to the game but I think that's smart. While tesla spends $5 billion on a supercharger network, the big guys sit back and wait for the governments to do it for them. When it's ready they'll launch their electric cars
People who post negative responses to this are the people who get it. The people who think the Porche Mission E is on the same playing field as Telsa are the ones who just don't get it.
The electric car is the EASY part. Anyone can build an EV. That doesn't impress me.
1. Without a long distance charging network in place, you cannot do inter-city travel in the Mission E. There are currently a grand total of TWO 800V chargers compatible with the future Mission E, both built in Berlin primarily as showpieces. Nothing can currently charge on them. And they're limited to 150 kW right now anyway. And seeing as how they're both in Berlin, they don't even assist with inter-city travel. Without the long-distance charging network, all you have is an in-city Leaf that looks better.
On a side note, I don't buy the 15-minute 80% recharge claim, either. C rate is C rate, regardless of what voltage you charge at. 300 mile range will be somewhere around 90-100 kWh capacity, similar to the Model S 100D. 350 kW charging is a C rate on the order of 3.5 to 4. Unless they have a new magical chemistry, that's going to trash the battery.
2. To build cars in volume, you have to have your own battery factory. If you want to buy 3rd-party batteries, you have the Japanese manufacturers like Panasonic, who can make a limited supply of Li-Ion cells that are using a preferred chemistry for EVs, and then you have the Chinese manufacturers who can supply more cells, but they're common chemistries that don't do well in EVs. If you need good cells in volume, you need your own factory.
3. EVs have drastically lower maintenance and repair than a comparable ICE, thus they directly impact the major revenue stream of the dealerships. Dealerships have no incentive to sell EVs since they undermine their profit. How does Porsche plan to circumvent this issue?
I haven't heard a peep out of any other auto manufacturer about how their coming EVs are going to work without addressing these three problems. Chevy's Bolt got a ton of "Tesla Killer" press, and they can build a maximum of 30K of them per year because they don't have a battery factory. I can't drive it from Houston to Dallas and back in 1 day, because they have no long-distance charging network (and on the Bolt, no fast charging capability at all). And I can't even get one in Texas, because no Chevy dealer even wants to talk to you about one.
The MIssion E is in the exact same boat until Porsche addresses these issues. So the car will (supposedly) be out in 2019 -- when are the other problems getting fixed?
Wake me up when another manufacturer actually has a comprehensive EV plan, then maybe I'll be impressed.
Fair point. L2 charging at 8 or 16kW or so just doesn't cut it out on the road, you need SCs, i.e. real infrastructure (and a big commitment to it).
Tesla's already made that commitment, and has been putting its money where its mouth is. Porsche/VW needs to do same to be taken seriously in EVs.