-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
I wish the Model 3 had the new Model S steering wheel
- Thread starter diplomat33
- Start date
Spacep0d
Active Member
The problem with the car guessing direction is not whether the car knows which direction it's going, it's the driver knowing which way the car is going. There may be edge cases where the driver wants to go in a direction the car thinks is 'wrong'. On the heels of spurious claims of 'unintended acceleration' caused by driver error, this may prove to be problematic...at least at first.
In Tesla's defense, there will be times when this direction guessing will actually prevent a background incidence of driver error, so there's that too. Even with stalks and physical interfaces, people still sometimes reverse when they mean to move forward, and vice versa.
I have a feeling that this new tech will be a non-issue in practice (this is Tesla after all) but it's critically important for the UI to make it very obvious which gear the car is in. The override also needs to be very accessible.
In Tesla's defense, there will be times when this direction guessing will actually prevent a background incidence of driver error, so there's that too. Even with stalks and physical interfaces, people still sometimes reverse when they mean to move forward, and vice versa.
I have a feeling that this new tech will be a non-issue in practice (this is Tesla after all) but it's critically important for the UI to make it very obvious which gear the car is in. The override also needs to be very accessible.
Candleflame
Active Member
i would probably get this if you could have the AP view on that screen and then get rid of it on the main screen. but as this isnt possible its a bit of doubeling up for no reason.
Spacep0d
Active Member
No, for the same reason most car signal stalks control left and right signals from one left-mounted control mechanism. This is to facilitate one-handed driving, especially with the manual transmissions of yore. Having it only on the left makes sense.
Spacep0d
Active Member
I was thinking this too. There will be times when you need to go (forward or reverse) but the car disagrees. Having to hunt down some teeny low-contrast override is a bad idea. Voice control is a possibility for the override (or command) as well, but it should be thoroughly tested with a command that cannot be confused with something else.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Dolemite
is my name
Although Jalopnik has become a glorified version of reddit, I think they summed it up nicely:
"Yes, the stalk that has been effectively standard on nearly all cars since the late 1940s was deemed not, I don’t know, disruptive enough for Tesla, so they’ve provided this instead"
"Yes, the stalk that has been effectively standard on nearly all cars since the late 1940s was deemed not, I don’t know, disruptive enough for Tesla, so they’ve provided this instead"
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Reactionary is bad enough, but whiny reactionary goes straight to the NULL bucket
Mattopotamus
Member
really nice! I can't see anything but that damn Koala face!!
Certainly looks cool and goes with the minimalist theme of the car, but would really like to try the wheel before giving it thumbs up or down.
It seems to me for this to work you shouldn't have to turn the wheel more than 90 deg in either direction to hit the left or right steering stop. I would think that would make the steering of the car very twitchy (i.e., slight movement of the steering wheel would be large change in direction car is going).
DopeGhoti
Active Member
That is:
* explicitly what I suggested would be a good idea
* explicitly _not_ what was depicted in the picture
U wheels (and similar) are designed for race cars since the driver has to maintain a constant (and hard) grip on the wheel in cramped conditions, and the steering is tuned so that even the tightest bend requires very little steering input (in the sense of how far the wheel needs to be turned). The driver always keeps his grip on the same part of the wheel throughout. Try watching a cockpit video to see what I mean.
In consumer vehicles, the steering is very much less sensitive (though it is not a constant ratio throughout its range). So, when making (say) a 90 degree turn, much more steering input is needed, which necessitates moving your hands to different parts of the wheel while maneuvering. Then, when the maneuver is complete, the wheel self-centers while it is allowed to slip through the drivers hand. This is all so natural as we all learn to do it very early when learning to drive, and dont even think about it after that. Again, try watching videos of normal drivers steering, watch which parts of the circular wheel they take hold of when making various maneuvers.
But you can't do these large steering inputs with a U wheel, since once you get to a certain point, you need to hold a part of the wheel that doesnt actually exist. Worse, when the wheel self-centers, the non-circular shape cannot "slip" through your hands .. it either bumps them around all over the place or (worse still) you lose grip on the wheel entirely and lose control of the car.
So with a U wheel in a consumer car, you either have to make the steering much more sensitive, which is dangerous as consumer drivers do not have the skills of highly trained race drivers, or you have drivers unable to find a part of the wheel to hold and/or lose grip entirely during everyday maneuvers, which is also dangerous.
I see no reason to have a U wheel other than "it looks futuristic" in a bizarre retro Buck Rogers kinda way. Ergonomically and practically its a disaster.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Interesting post -- thanks.
I'll venture to say that wheels made a lot of sense when they were mechanically linked to the wheels since they solved both leverage and turning radius problems. Electronic linkage gives the car designer room for other choices since leverage is irrelevant and turning radius can be solved with a weighted algorithm.
I don't know if I will like the Tesla approach, but I'll be happy to try it out.
The only concerning detail I've heard is from the MLB blog that pointed out that Tesla has done away with the gear selector. Now the car decides, and over-ride is via the center screen. To quote MLB: "I don't know about that, chief."
There are a few videos on YouTube of guys/gals getting a ride in the roadster and also the cybertruck. A few of them show the driver working the yoke. Watching them do large maneuvers, during which they have to move the yoke more than 90 degrees, looks very awkward.
I hope that they're able to tune it to allow very sensitive steering for maneuvering into tight spots (like, while parking) then much less sensitive steering for interstate cruising, as @SageBrush suggests. If they can pull that off, then it'll probably work fine. But if it ends up being tuned as shown in the roadster and cybertruck videos... not so much. No matter what, there will be an additional learning curve for a driver to get a feel for it. Honestly, I'm not sure that's a good thing.
I really hope this ends up being one of Elon's "thing that you didn't know you needed" and not unnecessarily reinventing the wheel.
I hope that they're able to tune it to allow very sensitive steering for maneuvering into tight spots (like, while parking) then much less sensitive steering for interstate cruising, as @SageBrush suggests. If they can pull that off, then it'll probably work fine. But if it ends up being tuned as shown in the roadster and cybertruck videos... not so much. No matter what, there will be an additional learning curve for a driver to get a feel for it. Honestly, I'm not sure that's a good thing.
I really hope this ends up being one of Elon's "thing that you didn't know you needed" and not unnecessarily reinventing the wheel.
I'm in the same boat. My visceral reaction is that I don't like it, but to be honest, I also thought that about the Model 3 interior that I absolutely love now. I'd certainly be willing to give it a try.
While I still don't think there's a strong technical or performance reason for the U wheel and I worry that it's trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist, I guess we'll know shortly if it's real and how it performs.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
About the yoke wheel ...
My Model 3 was bought without AP but I tried it out during a free trial. I ended up turning it off after a few hours of highway driving because the car was sure I was not holding the wheel. I'm pretty sure I am the problem -- my usual way to hold the wheel is to lightly place both hands on the bottom of the wheel.
I think I would find a steering bar perfect for my preference, and the yoke wheel might do nicely.
My Model 3 was bought without AP but I tried it out during a free trial. I ended up turning it off after a few hours of highway driving because the car was sure I was not holding the wheel. I'm pretty sure I am the problem -- my usual way to hold the wheel is to lightly place both hands on the bottom of the wheel.
I think I would find a steering bar perfect for my preference, and the yoke wheel might do nicely.
Similar threads
