Idle fee at empty Supercharger?

[Rocky_H]

Ugh--this is kind of a mess that their stall reporting accuracy is obviously broken across the board, so they have bad data, but they don't believe so.

 

[whttiger25]

ass·hole
/ˈasˌhōl/
noun
noun: arsehole; plural noun: arseholes; noun: asshole; plural noun: assholes
1 - A person who parks at a fuel pump when not actively pumping fuel.
2 - A person who parks in an EV charging station while not actively charging.

Note how neither definition gives a grace period for number of pumps or charging stations available. Don't be an asshole. Move your car when you aren't charging. It's not that hard, people.

Dude, You gotta give people a little slack. One can be considerate of others AND not immediately move their car if hte supercharger is mostly empty and you maintain awareness of the state of the supercharger.

 

[Helmuth]

Used to be that one got a notice in the phone app that idle fees may apply. That's happened to me before and correlates to times when the Supercharger station was 50% or better full. I haven't seen that since the last iteration of idle fees.

Did any of you get that notice?

Last time I got the notification was yesterday 1:32pm EST...
4 stalls out of 8 in use. But I move my Tesla regardless how busy the location is!

 

[TQCLove]

Last time I got the notification was yesterday 1:32pm EST...
4 stalls out of 8 in use. But I move my Tesla regardless how busy the location is!

This is what I would expect myself to do, but when dinner is nearly done, I glance out at the supercharger from the windows and can clearly see my car is the only one (1/8) and I know I’ll be out there in 5-10 minutes, the LAST thing on my mind is that I’m screwing someone over...or that I’ll be charged an idle fee. As this thread grows, I think it’s improtant not to get sidetracked into who is/isn’t in the right, who is/isn’t an asshole, etc.
The point is that currently on Tesla’s website, and what’s happening to people as far as idle fees, are different and conflicting. I’m out $4.50, am I sweating that? No. I don’t know what Tesla’s policy is on this, even after reading a chat log from a previous post between a customer and Tesla. That’s a problem they need to fix.

 

[bxr140]

WTF is up with people using charging spots as parking spots?

 

[8lincoln30]

ass·hole
/ˈasˌhōl/
noun
noun: arsehole; plural noun: arseholes; noun: asshole; plural noun: assholes
1 - A person who parks at a fuel pump when not actively pumping fuel.
2 - A person who parks in an EV charging station while not actively charging.

Note how neither definition gives a grace period for number of pumps or charging stations available. Don't be an asshole. Move your car when you aren't charging. It's not that hard, people.

Must be hard to go through life always being right about everything, huh? Someone wise once told me when you think everyone else is an asshole, you’re the asshole. You can’t give me a good reason why I should have moved my car from a deserted charger in the middle of the night, other than that you don’t like the view from your high horse. I might add that I was in the car and would have moved it if six Teslas had arrived at 4 a.m. in the middle of nowhere. But not moving it makes me an asshole? Grow up.

 

[8lincoln30]

WTF is up with people using charging spots as parking spots?

WTF is up with people being so officious and obstinate? I just knew my post would bring out the Supercharger Justice Mob.

 

[Canuck]

I got hit with a $15 idle fee at empty superchargers -- other than my car -- in Revelstoke, BC. I was concerned with my car sitting at 100% and wanted to get out of the meeting to get home, and never thought I'd get an idle fee until I was checking on supercharging fees on my account for my 3 and I saw it. The odd thing was I parked there overnight with it plugged in the night before -- since it was right outside my hotel room and mine was the only car. It didn't make sense to move it. But I never got hit with that idle time (I had the car set to 90%). I got hit the next day when I topped it up to 100%. I know if I disputed it, it would have been removed -- but that's not worth my time and I consider it a contribution to the cause.

 

[Canuck]

Wow, people are grouchy over nothing. You won't get me out of a warm bed to move my car from a bank of empty superchargers. That's just pure nonsense. The idle fees should only kick in for the purpose they serve and I'd be out of bed in a heartbeat before I selfishly inconvenienced anyone. I never have and never will. I leave notes at public chargers that I will return to the car if needed and to call my cell. I also know what it's like to own a Leaf and really need a charge.

 

[Russell]

Interesting online chat transcript with tesla. Just for context, I have already received one "one time complimentary" refund for a past idle charge transgression that truly was my mistake. This time, however, the location was clearly under 50% occupied, so I thought I was ok. There are some obvious moments in this chat where it appears this agent is confused about how various things work.

• Hi, how can I help you today?
• hi, I was charged a supercharger idle fee at the stateline nv supercharger for 20 minutes. However, the station had 4 stalls I believe out of 14, including mine, occupied
• which is below 50%
• I will be glad to assist you with this.
• Now Idle fees are charged when a customer stays connected to the charger when their charging session is completed.
• that is not what is currently on your website
• nor have I received any communication via email or snail mail about this change
• You should've got a notification at 5 mins and then again at 10 mins through your app.
• Idle fees are not supercharging fees they are different.
• currently on your web page: "Idle fees apply when a Supercharger station is at least 50% full, and double when the station is 100% full. "
• I did get a notification that charging was almost complete, and complete, but I knew the station had less than 50% occupancy
• i never got any notifications about being charged any idle fee
• I understand, the app notification is to remind you that you are almost at full charge and completed charge.
• How much were you charged and how long were you idle for?
• $10 for 20 minutes
• My main point here is that the policy on your website is that the station must be 50% full for an idle fee to be charged, and it wasn't
• There is no evidence anywhere of Tesla's changed policy that you can now be charged an idle fee at a supercharger that is less than 50% full
• I understand, just a moment while I look into this.
• So how would we know?
• thank you
• Your welcome, Jonathan
• Were you at a destination charging station?
• No, I was at the Stateline, NV supercharger
• Thank you.
• I didn't realize you could get an idle fee from a destination charger?
• They are not Tesla charging stations and can charge their own idle fees.
• ok
• Is this your first idle fee?
• I am talking about an idle fee charged by tesla
• this is my second
• the first was legitimate, but was waived as a courtesy
• I understand, just a moment.
• I am checking the supercharging station for what is considered 50% full.
• thanks
• So according to the site at the time you would have been charged they were at 50% full. Unfortunately, because you have already had a fee waived I cannot waive this fee.
• But the location was not 50% full
• and there are other reports online where other customers are experiencing idle fees at empty superchargers
• and earlier you even said there was some new policy that 50% doesn't matter, that you will always be charged the fee when charging is complete regardless of occupancy of the charger, despite the language on the website
• No, what i said was that charging fees and idle fees are different.
• So the problem here is, I as a customer am telling you the site was not 50% full. I've purchased two Model S vehicles, do I have a reason to lie?
• Well the site was not 50% full
• it had 4 stalls of 14 occupied
• you said "Now Idle fees are charged when a customer stays connected to the charger when their charging session is completed."
• And I'm saying, the site was under 50% full and per Tesla's policy online, I was not supposed to be charged
• so my past refund is irrelevant
• Exactly, you the idle fee was charged because you were connected for 20 minutes past the time that you needed for charging.
• correct, but the site was not 50% full, meaning I should not have been charged
• Per the policy on Tesla's website
• Just am moment.
• What city were you in?
• Stateline, NV
• I have it up, thank you.
• Here is what I can do for you, I can submit a request for refund of the idle fee. I cannot guarantee that it will be approved. It can take up to 30 days for refund if approved.
• Does Tesla not maintain evidence of what the supercharging occupancy was when charging idle fees?
• Yes, we do.
• and do you have that up?
• I do yes.
• and it says the station was 50% full?
• What I am seeing is that the site is reporting 50% full, this being said I would like to send to have it review for accuracy and possible refund.
  ok. That's very confusing because it wasn't
• I appreciate it
• You welcome, Jonathan.
• Now it could be an error on the site and this can be corrected.
• Is there anything else that I can assist you with?
• well I be informed of the decision one way or another?
• Yes, you will, just keep in mind it can take 30 days.
• ok thank you, that's good for now

What a frustrating call.

 

[bxr140]

Wow, people are grouchy over nothing.

I know, right? Someone lets their self-importance get the best of them while at a supercharger, then they come on TMC to complain about the resulting idle fees!

 

[TMeister]

Ok, so back to maybe what's causing this...

Anyone remember if the MCU (or the app now) showed > 50% at a Supercharger when you have evidence that it was not and you got an idle fee?

This is likely the explanation. Data that Tesla are using shows > 50% because of an issue with their reporting network. It HAS happened before.

 

[8lincoln30]

For anyone who still doesn’t get it, this thread is not about charging etiquette, costs or self-importance, it’s about Tesla explicitly stating a policy on its website and not adhering to it. It’s about telling customers, “We will only charge you if you do X” and then charging them for doing Y. It’s like if McDonald’s had a sign saying “free refills” at the soda fountain and then charged people’s credit cards when they refilled their drinks.

That’s not OK, and I’m surprised anyone smart enough to drive a Tesla would need that explained to them. Focus on whether that is an acceptable business practice, not on whether idling at an empty Supercharger automatically makes one a sociopathic knave worthy of scorn and ostracism.

 

[whttiger25]

I know, right? Someone lets their self-importance get the best of them while at a supercharger, then they come on TMC to complain about the resulting idle fees!

I honestly don’t get how this is about self importance. This is about Tesla stating a policy and doing something different. There are locations where it might make sense to leave your car for 10 or 20 extra minutes, while still being able to be considerate of others at the same time. Otherwise what’s the point of them having a 50% policy in the first place?? Honestly I’d rather they not have that policy and just charge everyone idle fees, if they can’t find a way to accurately enforce their stated policy, or use the app to give us real time info about occupancy and whether or not we are about to pay a fee. The app used to do that and they took that away, also without notice. I just want to know what rules to play by, I don’t want to pay idle fees and I don’t want to ever prevent someone else from charging, but I also want the power to decide under the current set of rules whether or not I want to leave my damn car at a supercharger, and I promise, I will not abuse that right. If Tesla really was concerned about cars being left st empty superchargers they wouldn’t have instituted a 50% policy! They just need to tell us the policy and enforce that policy, otherwise it’s just a negative customer experience

 

[jsmay311]

Here’s another reported instance, including photo evidence:

I'm just saying,I have a different definition of busy! : teslamotors

This episode really goes above and beyond the “normal” level of Tesla incompetence... which is really saying something.

 

[8lincoln30]

I assume the Supercharger Vigilante Squad would decree that whoever had the last remaining Tesla in an “I Am Legend”-style dystopia with one working port left should still move the car when it gets to 90 percent, just in case.

But here in pre-apocalyptic America, when I wonder if Tesla is contradicting its own stated policy, I’m an A-hole, I’m self-important, and probably I’m just lucky Tesla is only threatening to charge me 50 cents a minute instead of feeding my car to Robosaurus.

What a bleak, punitive, sanctimonious worldview.

 

[A-Wimoweh]

Do these fees start once your car get to 100% SoC, or once you have enough charge to reach your next destination?

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Do these fees start once your car get to 100% SoC, or once you have enough charge to reach your next destination?

Neither. They start once you get to your set charge level. If you find yourself delayed, you could increase the set change level to buy some more time, assuming you didn't already have it set to the maximum.

 

[TexasEV]

Neither. They start once you get to your set charge level. If you find yourself delayed, you could increase the set change level to buy some more time, assuming you didn't already have it set to the maximum.

In other words, the fee starts when the car is no longer charging (except for 5 min grace period if you disconnect during that time). When the car isn’t charging you’re using it as a parking space, not a charging space.

 

[Uncle Paul]

From this thread it seems that Tesla is not perfect, and may invoke fees for staying parked and plugged in even if the station is not full.

They may have had a policy change, but it has not yet been updated on all their communications.

They used to call it a congestion fee, but now call it an idle fee. If their communications claim that congestion fees only are charged at +50% capacity, they may still charge an idle fee if you remain plugged in after your charging session is completed.

I now notice that I sometimes get a notification when selecting a Supercharger that they will post the idle fee.

In the past people were pretty relaxed about moving their cars after Supercharging was completed. They wanted to finish their walk/meal/drinks/book/cigarette etc. before returning to their cars. Guess those days are over, and people need to return to their cars and move them from the stalls or invoke idle charges.

With all the complaints on these forums about owners upset to need to wait in line to get a charge, it is perhaps reasonable for Tesla to tighten up these things.