Idle fee at empty Supercharger?

[Rocky_H]

@LMichel In your emails with support, you seem to be going round and round because you're not pointing to exactly what is wrong, and rubbing their nose in it to make them see it. You keep repeating the policy, they say they show the station full, and then you repeat the policy and round and round it goes....

You're getting close when you say you were the only car, but very specifically point out that when they keep relying on what their database says, they are WRONG, because that data is WRONG. That seems to be what is not getting through to them.

*Edit* And to maybe elaborate a bit: This is difficult, because it is asking them to not do what their job is. They are trained to answer questions from the information they have. Well, the only information they have to look at in front of them to give answers to questions is what their database says. So that's the answers they are giving, and it's fairly natural that they have to trust that it is correct. What you (and others) are having to ask them to do is very outside of the box. It is to tell them that the supposed "information" they have in front of them about occupancy is just consistently, pervasively wrong pretty much all the time, and they need to go tell their supervisor that there is a much larger issue with this that is an engineering problem to get fixed--not just a specific customer issue with just you on the phone. That is a human nature challenge to get that through to someone that they need to do something other than what they think they are there for.

 

[TMeister]

So now that I have the ability to look at the local Supercharger availability in the app, I've been doing that on a random basis for my local Supercharger. I see availability of 8/8 mostly, some 7/8, one 5/8 so far in the last week. Maybe 20 or so checks in that time.

Since it's an off week, I've looked at more threads on this topic in TMC. It seems that there was a period in December (centered around 12/14) that availability data was simply wrong. I did in fact do a Supercharger session around that time and when looking at the availability on the MCU saw that all the drive-able locations around me (Baker City, OR, Boise, ID, Twin Falls, ID) all showed 50% occupancy. When I arrived at the Boise Supercharger I was the only car and occupancy then up to 5/8. I expanded the search out and saw that all Superchargers in the northwest showed 50% or greater occupancy. This was simply wrong.

I think we can safely assume that Tesla had wrong data and as @Rocky_H points out this should be the thrust of the discussion with Tesla. Their data was wrong.

Now that most (except those of you that resist updates ) have the ability to see availability in the app you should check it when Supercharging. Document when it is wrong so that you have a case to make with Tesla.

 

[scottm]

Here's a question. What does Tesla charge "non-Tesla" cars that park in a supercharger slot? I've seen this happen.

Tesla doesn't charge in this case, the property owner writes tag and tow tickets... I've seen it happen at busy shopping mall this holiday season when ICE-ing (ICING?) was going on... simply because the parking lot was crammed to the gills.

Some of the SC stalls were marked "Tesla only" others had the "General 30 min. parking limit" signs. I think the tickets were being given to any ICEr in any stall who had been there for at least 30 mins. Maybe they were sharper on the "Tesla only" stalls with immediate tickets... I dunno.

This kinda hurts the owner of the mall... they are having to correct shoppers who just spent good money in the mall and this may influence decisions on those shoppers returning to their mall. And yes, if the customer took the time to seek out the mall office and complained, they'd probably waive / erase the ticket in fairness to first-time offenders trusting they got the learning experience they needed. Much like Tesla does for first offenders - who are way more informed of the possible consequences to begin with.

So, I think it's generous of Tesla to "waive first". I got that in December during this period of "poor data" being questioned in this thread. Even though I was pretty darn sure the site didn't see > 50% occupancy... I got the message loud and clear, don't idle there after reaching the charge.

And yes, I think this fifty percent malarkey is going to go away soon with all the model 3's coming on. It will simply "always apply" no matter what the occupancy is. Also, fair game I think. Tesla is currently training us off of being lazy from the heady days of EV's being rare and their over-built network. The hammer will fall. Anybody want to guess a date that will happen?

 

[whttiger25]

And yes, I think this fifty percent malarkey is going to go away soon with all the model 3's coming on. It will simply "always apply" no matter what the occupancy is. Also, fair game I think. Tesla is currently training us off of being lazy from the heady days of EV's being rare and their over-built network. The hammer will fall. Anybody want to guess a date that will happen?

I will be happy to oblige with any policy Tesla chooses to set as long as it is clearly communicated to me.

 

[NeverFollow]

Here’s another reported instance, including photo evidence:

I'm just saying,I have a different definition of busy! : teslamotors

This episode really goes above and beyond the “normal” level of Tesla incompetence... which is really saying something.

If the charging amount is close to the threshold that you have selected, like 80%, but you cannot immediately return to your car,

can't you change and increase remotely the threshold, like 90%, so this give you an extra margin of time to avoid getting an idle fee?

 

[bxr140]

If the charging amount is close to the threshold that you have selected, like 80%, but you cannot immediately return to your car,

can't you change and increase remotely the threshold, like 90%, so this give you an extra margin of time to avoid getting an idle fee?

Yes. Near as we know, nobody has been charged fees while actually flowing electrons.

 

[TexasEV]

If the charging amount is close to the threshold that you have selected, like 80%, but you cannot immediately return to your car,

can't you change and increase remotely the threshold, like 90%, so this give you an extra margin of time to avoid getting an idle fee?

Even better, set your charging limit up before you leave your car. You would never want the supercharger to shut off before you return even if there wasn’t an idle fee.

 

[Rocky_H]

If the charging amount is close to the threshold that you have selected, like 80%, but you cannot immediately return to your car,

can't you change and increase remotely the threshold, like 90%, so this give you an extra margin of time to avoid getting an idle fee?

Yes, but I don't see why anyone would have it set for less than 100% when you're traveling anyway. That's just my standard practice when I'm on a trip. It stays at the top for that day, so there's no chance of that stupid thing where it stops charging when I'm about to leave the restaurant and walk back to the car. Might as well get that extra few minutes of charging while I'm walking back since the car is sitting there connected anyway.

 

[scottm]

..plus it takes a lloooooong time to reach 100% from say 95.. those last few 5% can take 20 to 30 more minutes after reaching 95. It's so painful if you need the 100 for your next hop.. but otherwise cheap insurance on keeping the charge flowing to avert penalty fee if you'r dining or something.

 

[NeverFollow]

..plus it takes a lloooooong time to reach 100% from say 95..
those last few 5% can take 20 to 30 more minutes after reaching 95.

It's so painful if you need the 100 for your next hop..
but otherwise cheap insurance on keeping the charge flowing
to avert penalty fee if you'r dining or something.

What I mean was to set to 80% to get an earlier notice as it is not always easy to determine how long it would take to charge,
if someone later on plug on a shared supercharger or if you are the only one connected.

I wonder in fact if you receive a notice when charging is completed while using a supercharger?

When charging at home, I receive a notice when charging starts but not when it stops.
So to check if charging is completed I need to have the phone app reconnecting to the car.

 

[israndy]

You should receive a notice when it is almost done. Giving you time to get to the car before it finishes. The wife is always impressed with how fast it is. We are never as ready as the car is to get back on the road.

Does your signature say you have reserved a Model Y?

-Randy

 

[RedOctober]

Here is the resolution of my issue with Tesla email support. To be clear, the lessons I've learned from this are a) Do not count on the "50% rule", just move the car and b) Tesla tech support isn't clear about what the current policy really is.

Me:
Hello, I was recently charged $10 for an idle fee at the Stateline, NV supercharger. However, when I plugged in prior to breakfast, there were only 3 cars plugged in out of 14 spots. So since this was less than 50%, I didn't rush back to my car when charging completed, as I was finishing breakfast. When I returned to the car, it was still only 3 other cars (4 total) plugged in out of 14. I still received a $10 idle fee charge. The language on your website states that the idle fee is only charged when the station is 50% occupied, so I believe I should be refunded. Also, the app did not notify me of a fee being charged. Thank you,

Tesla:
Hello Jonathan,

Thank you for reaching out regarding your supercharging idle fee.

Upon review of your account I do see that we have already waived your first idle fee. We at Tesla issue this credit as a courtesy for our new owners. Due to this refund we will not be refunding the current idle fee you are requesting.

We value you as a member of the Tesla family and as such want to make sure everyone is able to use the supercharging network, which is why we ask you move your vehicle when fully charged to allow space for the next vehicle. To be clear, this is purely about increasing customer happiness and we hope to never make any money from supercharging idle fees.

Below is a link to our supercharging FAQ’s. Idle Fees can occur with only your Tesla plugged in. The higher Tier of charges for Idle Fees if the Supercharging Station is over 50% in use.

Supercharger Idle Fee

Best,

Tristan | Tesla Support


Me:
My issue was regarding the fact that the supercharger station was not 50% full when I was there, and thus I should not have been charged the fee in the first place. My prior refund is irrelevant if I should of have been charged this fee per your guidelines on occupancy.


Tesla:
Jonathan,

As previously stated in my original email, Idle Fees can occur being the ONLY Tesla at the Supercharging station, other Tesla vehicles do not need to be present for idle fees to be charged. Additional higher fees apply to the Idle Fees in the event of the Supercharging station having occupancy over 50%, the Idle Fee can double in price. We apologize for the inconvenience that you have been declined to have this fee waived at this time. This fee and any future idle fees will not be waived as this courtesy waive has already been used.

I have provided a link to our Support page in regards to Idle Fees and how these work with the Supercharging stations.

Supercharger Idle Fee

Me:
This is not what’s currently on your website:
“Idle fees apply when a Supercharger station is at least 50% full, and double when the station is 100% full.”

This implies you will only be charged when there is a minimum of 50% occupancy.

Tesla:
Hello Jonathan,

Thank you for reaching out regarding your supercharging idle fee.

Upon review of your account I do see that we have already waived your first idle fee. We at Tesla issue this credit as a courtesy for our new owners. Due to this refund we will not be refunding the current idle fee you are requesting.

We value you as a member of the Tesla family and as such want to make sure everyone is able to use the supercharging network, which is why we ask you move your vehicle when fully charged to allow space for the next vehicle. To be clear, this is purely about increasing customer happiness and we hope to never make any money from supercharging idle fees.

Below is a link to our supercharging FAQ’s.

Supercharger Idle Fee

Best,

Tesla Support


Me:
I respectfully disagree, and if this was about increasing customer happiness, then my happiness should matter as well.


Here is the important point I am trying to make here. Your website states a very clear policy about when idle fees apply. It states the following:


“Idle fees apply when a Supercharger station is at least 50% full, and double when the station is 100% full.”


This literally and logically means that you won’t be charged an idle fee if the site is less than 50% occupied. In your prior email correspondence, however, you stated that idle fees are ALWAYS charged, regardless of occupancy, and that’s why I was charged. This is directly contrary to Tesla’s stated policy.


My past courtesy refund is not relevant if I should not have been charged this fee in the first place. Since the supercharger was less than 50% full, I should not have been charged. What should matter is the policy on your website, not the policy you say exists (but can’t be found publicly) after the fact that I’ve been charged.


Tesla needs to have a policy that’s clear and enforced accurately. That means either what’s stated on the website is enforced or what’s stated on the website is changed and communicated to owners. That’s clearly not happening now. I and others are participating in a forum thread about this at Tesla motors club, and others are frustrated by this as well. Clearly $10 doesn’t matter to me, but my experience of TRYING to abide by Tesla’s published policy, only to be fined anyway, has been very frustrating. Hopefully you’ll see that my customer happiness is important as well and refund my $10, and also hopefully work to clarify Tesla’s idle fee policy. When it comes to money, especially when charging rates as high as $1 a minute, I think it would be wise of Tesla to be clear and accurate in their policy.

Me: (a few days later)
I'm still awaiting a response to my prior email.

Tesla:
Hello Jonathan,

We appreciate your feedback regarding supercharging idle fees, we do charge these fees to ensure everyone has a chance to use the supercharging station. As you have had other fees waived we will not be able to remove this fee. I would recommend moving your vehicle as soon as charging is complete to avoid fees in the future.

Best,

Angie Teerlink | Tesla Support Email Supervisor

Me:
You didn’t address my actual concern, which is that the fee was not charged in accordance with Tesla’s stated policy that the fee is only applicable when the station is at least 50% full. The fee that I was charged was not applicable. My past fee waiver is irrelevant if I should not have been charged this second fee in the first place.


I’m very disappointed in this customer service experience.


I request you provide proof that you have a record that the station was actually 50% full per your stated policy, in lieu of a refund.



Tesla:
Hello Jonathan,

Apologies for the issue you have had with the supercharging station. I will refund this idle fee as a one time credit. You are correct that idle fees only apply when the station is over 50% full. Please remember things can change while you are not with your vehicle and if the lot does fill up you may incur charges. We do appreciate you being part of the Tesla family and want all to be able to utilize our supercharging network.
Best,

It’s like talking to the wall or a bot. Many of us have experienced this same issue with call centres. They can’t seem to answer the question being asked. Maybe this call centre is actually being used to train people how to become a politician.

 

[NeverFollow]

You should receive a notice when it is almost done.
Giving you time to get to the car before it finishes.
The wife is always impressed with how fast it is.
We are never as ready as the car is to get back on the road.

After receiving a notice, can you still change and increase remotely the charging setting?

In case you forget to set an alarm clock, receiving a notice can be very helpful, unless you fell asleep...

Does your signature say you have reserved a Model Y?

-Randy

Well, I made two reservations for the Model ≡ (That 's was the name at that time....)

I will try to transfer the 2nd for the Model Y unless this is not possible.

 

[israndy]

I too got two reservations along with a friend of mine who I waited in line with on the 31st. He recently got a call asking if he wanted to surrender his reservation and get his money back as it will be no use for getting a Model Y. The only reason to keep it is if you plan on buying another Model Ƹ.

I have kept mine on the assumption that I would like to be able to replace mine if something bad happens. Now they are pretty much everywhere so likely I could replace it pretty quickly if needed.

-Randy

 

[TQCLove]

Updating my situation. I never did hear back from Tesla after emailing them but the charge (only $4.50) was reversed on my credit card yesterday. I’d say that bodes well for them being aware they need to take care of this “issue” ...more accurate reporting? Change the policy perhaps? Whatever the case may be, I believe they’ll work it out.

 

[bxr140]

In barely related news, I just got an app notification that my car is done supercharging and I may start to accrue idle fees.
The only problem is that my car is currently at the Palo Alto service center.

Next time I use the 'secret' Lompoc charger I think I'm going to let it complete supercharging just to see what happens.

 

[Resist]

I just experienced an idle fee, that was waived (a one time thing). But what is interesting is that my car was set to charge to 100% and it only charged to 80%, so I thought maybe it was a high use period even though there was no notification of that. I'm a bit upset about this and want my one time waiver back. How do I get a hold of Tesla to fight this?

 

[serendipitous]

I just experienced an idle fee, that was waived (a one time thing). But what is interesting is that my car was set to charge to 100% and it only charged to 80%, so I thought maybe it was a high use period even though there was no notification of that. I'm a bit upset about this and want my one time waiver back. How do I get a hold of Tesla to fight this?

When you plug into a high-use charger, shortly after you plug in, your charge limit will be reduced to 80%. If you set it in the car to 100% and then plug in, or set it immediately after plugging in, it will be overridden a minute later. You'll get a notification on your phone app (if you've allowed notifications). You have to wait until AFTER you get that notification and then you can set it back up to 100% or whatever you want.

 

[Resist]

When you plug into a high-use charger, shortly after you plug in, your charge limit will be reduced to 80%. If you set it in the car to 100% and then plug in, or set it immediately after plugging in, it will be overridden a minute later. You'll get a notification on your phone app (if you've allowed notifications). You have to wait until AFTER you get that notification and then you can set it back up to 100% or whatever you want.

I understand that and as I keep saying, I never got the notification on my cars display or a notification about that on my phone. It's don't that in the past but I don't think Tesla does this anymore and believe it's automatic if the Supercharger is at least 50% capacity.

 

[ucmndd]

I understand that and as I keep saying, I never got the notification on my cars display or a notification about that on my phone. It's don't that in the past but I don't think Tesla does this anymore and believe it's automatic if the Supercharger is at least 50% capacity.

There is absolutely nothing you can do to fight this with Tesla that won’t take orders of magnitude more effort and time than any ~$10 waived idle fee is worth. Don’t waste your time. They don’t care.