This is great that everything now arranges itself around what we plan for it, and there's nothing unexpected anymore! I can't wait to tell me wife about this.
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IDLE Fees questions
- Thread starter Mayhem
- Start date
LMichel
Member
Wow Graffi,
You're so smart. Gee... So - if I understand; I could just see how much time it will take to charge and then come back before that time is up. Hmmmm... I wonder how I could know that time is up? If only there were a device to tell me when that time was up.... Now THAT would be amazing. Imagine a future where a person could KNOW how long it would take for their car to charge and then plan their mall visit around that amount of time!
Amazing...
You're so smart. Gee... So - if I understand; I could just see how much time it will take to charge and then come back before that time is up. Hmmmm... I wonder how I could know that time is up? If only there were a device to tell me when that time was up.... Now THAT would be amazing. Imagine a future where a person could KNOW how long it would take for their car to charge and then plan their mall visit around that amount of time!
Amazing...
Graffi
Member
It is folks like the two of you above that has caused Tesla to start the IDLE FEES. Do you even question if someone parked at the gas pump to get a couple of gallons of gas and just left their car while they went to the movies, or just walked around the mall for a few hours? It may not be illegal but it certainly is NOT polite.
As one who only uses the Superchargers while on trips, and we do a lot of long trip driving, it is nice when the other Tesla drivers are courteous to other Supercharger users. just saying ....
As one who only uses the Superchargers while on trips, and we do a lot of long trip driving, it is nice when the other Tesla drivers are courteous to other Supercharger users. just saying ....
And there we are back to the ridiculous gas station analogy again. To be very clear, I love the idle fees, but as long as charging times are so variable and badly estimated and app notifications are spotty, I just think 5 minutes maybe a bit too low to respond quickly enough. 10 or 15 would be slightly better.
That's not a really fair comparison is it? Gassing up takes 10 min. SC'ing takes 20-60min. That's why Tesla on their website list all the surrounding amenities such as restrooms, restaurants, etc. We ALL agree here that no one should be allowed to idly occupy a charge stall preventing others from using it. It's just how we are notified that our car is done using it that we are debating. I said it above and I stand by it. "My goal is how to be best informed on how to react when my charge is done." And to do that I need to know how busy the station is.
FWIW I have only once been at a SC when it was over 50% full (5/8 including my S) and I stayed in the car for that charge. Any time I have left for food, drink, bathroom etc is when there were only 1 or 2 cars (including mine) at the station. And I have never comeback in that setting to a full or 50% full SC.
LMichel
Member
Totally agree.
Yes, I would never knowingly block someone that needs the SC. The point I stated several posts above is the Paramus SC; That one sometimes has a line of cars waiting. In a case like that, I would stay with my car and charge only what I need to get to the next one.
Oddly, I was at the mall again today. Yep, I was the only Tesla there. BTW the charger is at the far end of the lot. I walk further than the average ICE person parks. Which reminds me, I like it that way. Less chance of getting ICEd...
I was getting a haircut when the text came in. Imagine me running across the parking lot to move my car with the barber bib still on.. Ridiculous. Nope, not gonna happen! Now, if there was even a hint that things would get busy, I wouldn't have even opted for the haircut today.
No, it isn't people like me. It's people (likely on the west coast) with a self-centered attitude toward others that likely brought this on. There simply isn't that kind of crowding here. I'm in SoCal at least once a quarter. I've seen the overcrowded SCs. I get it. It isn't like that around here --- yet!
When I had an ICE car, I would get gas, move immediately and then go in for coffee. Judging by my actions at both an SC and a gas station, I would say they are not even close to being the same thing.
Now I better shut up - I can sense Bruce (bmah) getting ready to admonish me for dancing a little too close to the line of insensitivity
ljbad4life
Member
IMHO in these instances It might be everyone's best interest that Urban chargers (maybe even tesla destination chargers) replace superchargers at malls, movie theaters etc. Urban chargers charge times don't jump around at all in my experience like some superchargers do. Leave superchargers for explicit highway use at highway rest stops. 30-40 minutes and the cars move on. enough for a quick bite at a fast food joint and a trip to the restroom. Urban chargers could then have lower idle fees that get higher the longer someone doesn't move and a bit longer grace period (lets say 10 minutes). I think that's a fair deal.Totally agree.
Yes, I would never knowingly block someone that needs the SC. The point I stated several posts above is the Paramus SC; That one sometimes has a line of cars waiting. In a case like that, I would stay with my car and charge only what I need to get to the next one.
Oddly, I was at the mall again today. Yep, I was the only Tesla there. BTW the charger is at the far end of the lot. I walk further than the average ICE person parks. Which reminds me, I like it that way. Less chance of getting ICEd...
I was getting a haircut when the text came in. Imagine me running across the parking lot to move my car with the barber bib still on.. Ridiculous. Nope, not gonna happen! Now, if there was even a hint that things would get busy, I wouldn't have even opted for the haircut today.
No, it isn't people like me. It's people (likely on the west coast) with a self-centered attitude toward others that likely brought this on. There simply isn't that kind of crowding here. I'm in SoCal at least once a quarter. I've seen the overcrowded SCs. I get it. It isn't like that around here --- yet!
When I had an ICE car, I would get gas, move immediately and then go in for coffee. Judging by my actions at both an SC and a gas station, I would say they are not even close to being the same thing.
Now I better shut up - I can sense Bruce (bmah) getting ready to admonish me for dancing a little too close to the line of insensitivity
tinm
2020 Model S LR+ Owner
The other day I visited the supercharger in Santa Fe, NM.
I did my charge, then it ended. But right around when it ended I got a phone call. So I did the call, it went on for a while. I then get out, unplug car, drive away.
When I got home . . . there was an email from Tesla saying I was being charged an "Idle Fee". "27 minutes at $.50/min and 0 minutes at $1/min." This was a first. I the five years of ownership of my S, I have never ever gotten an Idle Fee notice before.
The good news was, the email said since this was my first offense, or words to that effect, they weren't going to charge me,
But here's my question . . .
This is Santa Fe, mind you. When I pulled into the supercharger parking lot it was desolate. While charging, zero Teslas arrived. There are 8 chargers, and mine was the only one active. When I was finished and on the phone, still, not another soul showed up.
Sooooooo... why did I get this email? Is this a bug on Tesla's part? My car may indeed have been "idle" but who was harmed?
I did my charge, then it ended. But right around when it ended I got a phone call. So I did the call, it went on for a while. I then get out, unplug car, drive away.
When I got home . . . there was an email from Tesla saying I was being charged an "Idle Fee". "27 minutes at $.50/min and 0 minutes at $1/min." This was a first. I the five years of ownership of my S, I have never ever gotten an Idle Fee notice before.
The good news was, the email said since this was my first offense, or words to that effect, they weren't going to charge me,
But here's my question . . .
This is Santa Fe, mind you. When I pulled into the supercharger parking lot it was desolate. While charging, zero Teslas arrived. There are 8 chargers, and mine was the only one active. When I was finished and on the phone, still, not another soul showed up.
Sooooooo... why did I get this email? Is this a bug on Tesla's part? My car may indeed have been "idle" but who was harmed?
zanary
Active Member
You got the notice/warning because you were in violation of the updated rules. The idle fee structure is even shown right on your Navigation maps.
Basically you get 5 minute grace period to leave a charger when charged, period. After the 5 minute grace period, you get charged one of two dollar/minute fee structures retro the 5 minutes.
You missed the relevant part of his post, and your description of idle fees is incomplete. No one else was charging at the time. The idle fee applies when the station is at least 50% occupied when your charging stops, and is double when the station is 100% occupied. There is NO idle fee if the station is less than 50% occupied when your charging is finished. He should not have been billed— it was a mistake.
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zanary
Active Member
I got the 50% confused. Looks like your right.
source = Supercharger Idle Fee
"...Do idle fees apply if there are Supercharger spots still available?
Idle fees apply to any car occupying a Supercharger if the station is at least 50% full and the charge session is complete. Idle fee rates double when the station is 100% occupied...."
tinm
2020 Model S LR+ Owner
Well since I was one of the "no way will I download V9 because of what they did to the video camera window" people who then became "I wonder if they ever fixed that" people who then became one of the "It sounds like they did fix it I guess I should finally download V9 one of these days" people, I haven't yet downloaded V9 so I see nothing in V8 in the car about idle times etc. I should have received an instant notification in the car right at the 4-minute mark--"warning: idle fees start in one minute" and some kind of warning on the 17" screen in the car.... got nothin'. Bad design, Tesla, bad design.
EVSteve
110% Solar Powered
Looks like this information is available as of 2018.48.x.
On the mobile app?
LMichel
Member
I had this problem as well today. Plus, it wasn't a drill this time. Tesla actually charged me. Or they want to...
I too was the only vehicle at the station. I ran 36 minutes over. No warnings, no notifications, nothing.
On my way home, I notice an email from Tesla that they want $18. AND, until they get it, they won't let my car charge.
EXTORTION!
This is class action suit material...
If I was preventing someone from charging, then by all means - nail me. If there were plenty of open spaces then this isn't right.
Finally, I think charging me a fee after the station is 50% or greater occupied is reasonable. Charging me that fee, not warning me and doing it when I'm not inconveniencing anyone is not reasonable!
I too was the only vehicle at the station. I ran 36 minutes over. No warnings, no notifications, nothing.
On my way home, I notice an email from Tesla that they want $18. AND, until they get it, they won't let my car charge.
EXTORTION!
This is class action suit material...
If I was preventing someone from charging, then by all means - nail me. If there were plenty of open spaces then this isn't right.
Finally, I think charging me a fee after the station is 50% or greater occupied is reasonable. Charging me that fee, not warning me and doing it when I'm not inconveniencing anyone is not reasonable!
Personally, I feel like it should be all the time. Consistently is beautiful. Otherwise, it is random based on others.
Of course, they currently state 50% so they should abide by that rule.
Understand you are angry by this.... but you do realize it is just a glitch, right? They have mistakenly thought the station was >50% full. I think the real frustration comes when they make you try to prove it wasn't. Seems like an impossible situation
LMichel
Member
Yes you're right. Angry is a word. And I must admit, probably not a complete mischaracterization of how I felt yesterday.
Ok, a little calmed down now..
However, this really isn't something that Tesla should mess up. It's pretty serious stuff.
If this happened to me, it would make sense that it happened to many owners with "free supercharging" as well.
It further makes sense that many owners faced paying a fee that they knew was a mistake, or no longer receive "free supercharging".
As far as proving that the station was less than 50% full, that's pretty easy. In legal fair discovery, I could request Tesla provide a copy of the data (including owner contact information) for all cars that were plugged into that specific charger for the specific time in question.
A) Tesla could refuse, resulting in their default.
B) Tesla could stall, resulting in potential media attention.
C) Tesla could provide such data (fabricated or misidentified) and those owners would be contacted (subpoenaed?) to confirm that their vehicle was present (or not present) at the supercharger during the time in question.
Anyway you approach it, Tesla does not need this right now. Things are just starting to look positive.
I hope they correct the mistake and fix the process quickly.
Ok, a little calmed down now..
However, this really isn't something that Tesla should mess up. It's pretty serious stuff.
If this happened to me, it would make sense that it happened to many owners with "free supercharging" as well.
It further makes sense that many owners faced paying a fee that they knew was a mistake, or no longer receive "free supercharging".
As far as proving that the station was less than 50% full, that's pretty easy. In legal fair discovery, I could request Tesla provide a copy of the data (including owner contact information) for all cars that were plugged into that specific charger for the specific time in question.
A) Tesla could refuse, resulting in their default.
B) Tesla could stall, resulting in potential media attention.
C) Tesla could provide such data (fabricated or misidentified) and those owners would be contacted (subpoenaed?) to confirm that their vehicle was present (or not present) at the supercharger during the time in question.
Anyway you approach it, Tesla does not need this right now. Things are just starting to look positive.
I hope they correct the mistake and fix the process quickly.
Which is why it should be a straight idle fee regardless of usage. Just like the EA chargers.
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