If you wander into a SC and ask, will Tesla necessarily tell you if your battery is throttled?
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aerodyne
2 of 3 EV's - Defect Free!
More likely, "No problems found, car is performing as designed"
Or words to that effect, is my guess.
originally it was only 90 but now almost all 85 are throttled. It came from parked car fires and is probably from lithium plating or dendrites formed during superchargers.
Wow, lots of good reading here, and planning on reading through all 119 pages. On page 10 at the moment. Just wanted to add my data.
March 2018 MX 100D. I have 40,000+ miles. 90% highway (several trips between MA and FL, one from FL to OK and back, and one from FL to Sacramento, CA and back). I would guess 90-95% Supercharger. I remember hitting close to 120kw early on, and maybe as much as 135kw when they made some changes last year. I have noticed some superchargers are better than others, and of course temperature makes a difference, cold or hot.
Went to a supercharger yesterday in Florida, about 90 degrees outside. Started at 18% charge, and charge rate was 102kw and slowly climbed to 108kw (very slowly over the time it took to get to 50%) until I hit 50%, and then the curve started to drop quickly to 95, 90, 85, and I think around 83kw by the time I got to 60%. Total charge time was 24 minutes to go from 18% to 60%. Last week on my way from MA to FL, after driving 170 miles @ 80+mph going from 98% to 32% it then took me 29 minutes to go from 32% to 75%. Outside temp at 67 degrees and climate control was on the whole time. Charging started around 104kw, and I don't believe it ever went higher.
So I am not sure if I am throttled or not, but I will be keeping an eye on it more. I have a lot of data still to put in my spreadsheet for all of 2019 and 2020, but this year haven't really been making a note of the maximum charge rates. I do feel the calculations and "Time Remaining" is better now than it used to be.
I don't have a problem with 104-110 kw between 10-50%. Wish it were higher as I am sure it is increasing my overall travel time on my long trips, but I have always seen a drop well below the max when I am on the upper end of charge. I haven't seen 120kw since November last year on my trip to CA.
I only charge above 90% when I am getting ready to hit the road, and typically only when I want to save the amount of time I'll have to be at the next supercharger. On my trip to Sacramento (November) there was a couple of times I went as low as 9-10%, and once below 5%, but will definitely be avoiding that in the future. Currently when I am not on a road trip I top out at 60%.
March 2018 MX 100D. I have 40,000+ miles. 90% highway (several trips between MA and FL, one from FL to OK and back, and one from FL to Sacramento, CA and back). I would guess 90-95% Supercharger. I remember hitting close to 120kw early on, and maybe as much as 135kw when they made some changes last year. I have noticed some superchargers are better than others, and of course temperature makes a difference, cold or hot.
Went to a supercharger yesterday in Florida, about 90 degrees outside. Started at 18% charge, and charge rate was 102kw and slowly climbed to 108kw (very slowly over the time it took to get to 50%) until I hit 50%, and then the curve started to drop quickly to 95, 90, 85, and I think around 83kw by the time I got to 60%. Total charge time was 24 minutes to go from 18% to 60%. Last week on my way from MA to FL, after driving 170 miles @ 80+mph going from 98% to 32% it then took me 29 minutes to go from 32% to 75%. Outside temp at 67 degrees and climate control was on the whole time. Charging started around 104kw, and I don't believe it ever went higher.
So I am not sure if I am throttled or not, but I will be keeping an eye on it more. I have a lot of data still to put in my spreadsheet for all of 2019 and 2020, but this year haven't really been making a note of the maximum charge rates. I do feel the calculations and "Time Remaining" is better now than it used to be.
I don't have a problem with 104-110 kw between 10-50%. Wish it were higher as I am sure it is increasing my overall travel time on my long trips, but I have always seen a drop well below the max when I am on the upper end of charge. I haven't seen 120kw since November last year on my trip to CA.
I only charge above 90% when I am getting ready to hit the road, and typically only when I want to save the amount of time I'll have to be at the next supercharger. On my trip to Sacramento (November) there was a couple of times I went as low as 9-10%, and once below 5%, but will definitely be avoiding that in the future. Currently when I am not on a road trip I top out at 60%.
Definitely sounds like you are throttled. I highly doubt you will ever see 110kW or more in that car again. I'm driving a March 2018 S100D so presumably have the same battery that you have. I often max out at 108kW and sometimes max out at a little less than that. I have seen it tick up to 109 a couple times, but figure that is just a fluke.
aerodyne
2 of 3 EV's - Defect Free!
Before chargegate, oct 2018, I saw 118 KW at 33% SoC.
Recent updates seem to have improved things a bit. Saw 108 at 27% recently.
You don't seem throttled at all to me...perhaps because you have 100 KwH pack?
When I see the Time Remaining counter, I mentally think Elon Time Remaining...
Recent updates seem to have improved things a bit. Saw 108 at 27% recently.
You don't seem throttled at all to me...perhaps because you have 100 KwH pack?
When I see the Time Remaining counter, I mentally think Elon Time Remaining...
Candleflame
Active Member
highly dependent on the technician. there have been some people who got exactly figures for how much DC charging they have done, when throtteling starts and when throtteling stops getting worse.
aerodyne
2 of 3 EV's - Defect Free!
You don't need a SC to tell you how much DC the car has done. CAN bus reader will do that for you, as well as max charging speed allowed and many other parameters.
Just don't bring it to the SeC with the reader connected, they will blame any problem you have on the device.
Just don't bring it to the SeC with the reader connected, they will blame any problem you have on the device.
We have a 2015 P85 and definitely have been throttled. Plugging into the Supercharger at a low SOC we see ~120 kW for a split second and then the charging rate immediately drops to about 80 kW. This came on suddenly some time prior to March of this year because supercharging prior to that at the same supercharger we routinely started at 120 kW and tapered as expected.
During the life of the car we haven’t supercharged much. One round trip to Florida, one to Kansas City, and trips from Dallas to Austin a two or three times per year. That doesn’t seem excessive.
What’s particularly frustrating about this is that we received a replacement pack last September that restored our range to factory new range, so throttling this particular pack seems pointless.
During the life of the car we haven’t supercharged much. One round trip to Florida, one to Kansas City, and trips from Dallas to Austin a two or three times per year. That doesn’t seem excessive.
What’s particularly frustrating about this is that we received a replacement pack last September that restored our range to factory new range, so throttling this particular pack seems pointless.
aerodyne
2 of 3 EV's - Defect Free!
I think it is safe to assume the throttling is to reduce the chance of a ignition event to a very low probability. It does not mean 85 packs like ours are at a high risk.
It is just an extra 10min or so for a 60% charge. At least you can charge on a long trip, unlike Taycan, or Polestar, etc.
Plus, once you are out of warranty, your pack may last longer at the lower charge rates.
That is a key detail. Unless you are charging 10-50% and then immediately departing, the total time added to the charge is usually small compared to the overall session - but only if everything else is working right. If you have connector or cooling problems the whole session will be a mess.
it does not sound to me like you are throttled. But i'm not an expert on throttle-gate so..
My 2015 85D has just over 40,000 miles on the odometer and I have had several SCer sessions that describe something similar to this.. although my car will hit 128 kW IIRC (I have not supercharged in much at all in the past year and a half, and only once or twice since the Covid-19 lockdown in March 2020) and then slowly fall to 108 kW.. 100 kW.. 90 kW..and on and on.
the algorithm for supercharging has definitely changed so the cars spend a lot less time SCing above 110 kW. But again I don't know that this is down to throttling for excessive SCing.
Having said that, for about a year towards the end of 2018 and into the fall of 2019 I was SCing almost exclusively for my charging needs. however I think I only drove the car like 4,000 miles so I wasn't SCing THAT often.
This is 100% true although it can be emotionally irritating when one is not getting the expected outcome.
I have not taken a very long road trip in my Model S in several years, and, while previous experience tells me that the car will always be ready to go at a rest stop before I am, 10 minutes per stop on a 700 mile per day road trip makes me feel a bit uneasy.
When my 90D charging was stifled several years ago, my charging times to 90% almost doubled. Not only do you have to take into account max charge rate, but taper. My max charge rate dropped from about 120 to 94. The taper changed from slowing at around 70% to slowing at 50%, and slows much more than before.
A lot of folks only think about max charge rate, but taper changes are often a much more significant impact to total charge time.
aerodyne
2 of 3 EV's - Defect Free!
I don't doubt this...but there are ways to reduce the impact.
Bjorn Nyland has shown the best cross country speeds are to drive down to a lower SoC, and stop charging sooner. Charging past 80% does not make sense unless you can't make your destination with a reasonable margin.
That is exactly my experience. SCing to full or near full was the only way to get from one SC to the next four years ago. It it’s as if the car was only good for one North America cruise then had to be a homebody.
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
My S-60 was designed to be a "homebody" but most of my miles are from road trips. An hour and a half to Supercharge to 95% to 97% to make longer trip legs? Done this many, many times. My charging starts at ~75 kW at 5% and the taper starts at 15-20% and declines from there. Nevertheless, I've done more than 450 Supercharger visits, every single one on a road trip. Takes me a lot longer than the 85s, even throttled 85s, but I manage ok. Yes, road trips are a LOT slower than in ICE cars but I find them more relaxing in my S-60. It does limit me to 500-600 miles a day, however.
Why buy a used S-60 for road trips? Simple: it was all I could afford. So, I make do. YMMV.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
I think the earlier taper was more of a software update that affected everyone. Because I definitely remember a time when my max rate was low but the taper started late, like 60% ish. Then later the taper started happening before I even got to 50%, but everyone was complaining about that at the time, not just the high mileage people. It was definitely a double whammy though! Would love it if they could reduce the taper with a future software update.
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
I tend to take a lot of long walks with my audio books, on a tiny MP3 player, to get some exercise. Or catch up on text messaging with friends and family since I never use a phone while driving. Or eat something from my food stores. I love driving my Tesla — especially on road trips!Nice. More time to chill out in the car, get work done, or nap.
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