Infinite Mile Battery Warranty [Now] Being Honored By Tesla [Issue Resolved]

[Bet TSLA]

Why would you want to get stranded again if you are legally owed a new battery now? That is what the warranty arbitration process is for - to judge disagreements between the manufacturer and the consumer (you). If you are right about Tesla being dishonorable, surely you will be awarded a new battery and avoid the inconvenience of your family being stranded again.

By not utilizing arbitration, essentially, you are choosing choice #3 and #2 (admitting that at this time Tesla's interpretation of degradation is the correct interpretation). Why not hold Tesla's feet to the fire and prove they are being dishonorable as you claim in the thread title?

Please give it a rest. You aren't contributing anything at this point. The OP has already thanked you for your advice, indicated he isn't going to go in that direction, and is doing what he wants to do. Continued carping is pointless.

 

[StealthP3D]

Please give it a rest.

I understand the OP thinks warranty arbitration requires $5,000 and a lawyer and that is the reason he's given for not solving his disagreement with the process that is designed for his exact situation. And that's not a valid reason because arbitration is inexpensive and does not require a lawyer.

So I'm thinking there must be another reason for avoiding the process designed for his exact situation. Perhaps he's concerned that Tesla has access to certain relevant facts that have not been brought to light in this thread or that he would lose based on the finding that his battery has experienced slow degradation, something specifically excluded from warranty coverage.

Instead, his strategy appears to be to publically badmouth Tesla as not honoring their warranty, and to do it to as many people as possible hoping that Tesla will eventually cave in to his unreasonable demands (in Tesla's opinion) and give him a brand new battery. This is what the arbitration process is designed to avoid. A neutral third party could resolve this. I'm just not sure the OP would like the outcome.

 

[vickh]

how much would arbitration cost here?

 

[StealthP3D]

how much would arbitration cost here?

Very, very little, considering the battery the OP is trying to get for free would cost $21,000. Actually, for auto warranty claims I think it's free for the consumer unless they need to spend a little something to provide evidence or documentation. But if the arbitor(s) decided against the OP, he would be out whatever it cost with nothing to show for it. Which is probably the most likely outcome given only the facts presented here. But Tesla could bring facts to arbitration that are not disclosed in this thread. We have only heard one side of the story.

 

[MikeBur]

Interesting tidbits, though unduly long.

To make it more consumable for others about to embark on this lengthy thread, you might wish to remove some of the noise. (Select profile of the noise generators you’ll soon identify and select ignore). Noise generators for me are those who hide behind the supposed veil of anonymity, judging others whilst pretending to be experts and just repeatedly pontificating their beliefs and opine as fact hoping it will sway others.

To the OP, I’m hopeful you’ll get to resolution with a reasonable dialog with Tesla. To help, I’d strongly suggest investing in some logging mechanism, eg TeslaFi or Stats, to start generating your own data. It may not be required as you appear to be close to catastrophic failure of battery pack, though will help determine your own record rather than just relying on Tesla records. Also, the SCs are obviously swamped and everyone is seemingly feeling this strain, so I’d recommend overly politeness when you can if that’s your primary contact point.

@Seven7: I noticed you asking to confirm the significant degradation on one journey in particular, then nothing. I also noticed your Founder VINs. Are you helping keep corp informed on this one? As our cars age, I would imagine the battery degradation real world rate should be reported for investigation. I’m sure hearing from a key partner would help ensure this is being monitored.

 

[StealthP3D]

Continued carping is pointless.

One would think so. Especially when there is the option of warranty arbitration that could resolve this dispute quickly using a neutral and unbiased third party.

Interesting tidbits, though unduly long.

Agreed, much too long and too repetitive.

To make it more consumable for others about to embark on this lengthy thread, you might wish to remove some of the noise. (Select profile of the noise generators you’ll soon identify and select ignore). Noise generators for me are those who hide behind the supposed veil of anonymity, judging others whilst pretending to be experts and just repeatedly pontificating their beliefs and opine as fact hoping it will sway others.

Unfortunately, if you remove those who "hide behind the supposed veil of anonymity", repeatedly pontificating their beliefs hoping it will sway others, you will have to remove the very first post and the very existance of this thread.

Also, the SCs are obviously swamped and everyone is seemingly feeling this strain, so I’d recommend overly politeness when you can if that’s your primary contact point.

To his credit, the OP has remained positively polite and gentlemanly throughout this thread. The same cannot be said of a few others.

@Seven7: I noticed you asking to confirm the significant degradation on one journey in particular, then nothing. I also noticed your Founder VINs. Are you helping keep corp informed on this one? As our cars age, I would imagine the battery degradation real world rate should be reported for investigation. I’m sure hearing from a key partner would help ensure this is being monitored.

This is exactly the kind of data that every wirelessly connected Tesla reports back to Tesla and it's very valuable to them in terms of monitoring the behavior of their batteries in a wide variety of environments and usage/charging patterns. To suggest they don't already monitor this with great interest is mind-boggling.

It is the kind of data that very well could be the difference between a company that goes on to be very successful and helps change the world for the better vs. a company that disappears, bankrupted by the economic cost of it's failures and it's customers demands. They use this data to tune the chemistries of future battery iterations for better and longer performance and there is not a shadow of a doubt that it is one of their most valuable assets in their quest to make increasing long-lived batteries and this kind of data is probably one of the primary reasons they increased the battery cooling capacity on the Model 3 significantly.

 

[Rocky_H]

One would think so. Especially when there is the option of warranty arbitration that could resolve this dispute quickly using a neutral and unbiased third party.

So why are you so insistent and pushy that he use the arbitration option right now? He still has two years and change left in the warranty period, and the battery is in the process of falling off a cliff right now, so he can still wait on using that arbitration process later if he wants to, and he will have an even better case as the battery becomes more and more pathetic at a rapid pace.

 

[StealthP3D]

So why are you so insistent and pushy that he use the arbitration option right now? He still has two years and change left in the warranty period, and the battery is in the process of falling off a cliff right now, so he can still wait on using that arbitration process later if he wants to, and he will have an even better case as the battery becomes more and more pathetic at a rapid pace.

I'm not being pushy that he take it to arbitration, that's his decision and only he can weigh the downside of some lost time/money with the upside of a $21,000 brand new battery for free. I'm surprised no one before me mentioned that option and I didn't even mention warranty arbitration until it was apparent he was so convinced that Tesla was being dishonorable with regard to what was owed to him under the warranty that he was going to continue to disparage Tesla's reputation until it was in Tesla's best interest to cave in and give him what he wanted (even if it was clearly not covered by the warranty). I was merely asking, if he felt so strongly that he was currently owed a brand new battery, why he didn't put Tesla's feet to the fire and take it to arbitration. Because it's looking increasingly like he's using Tesla's vulnerabilities and need for positive press to gain something of value and his reluctance to use warranty arbitration strengthens that appearance.

I have no objection whatsoever to warranty replacement of his battery if future events (like battery failure due to something other than degradation) should occur. But that is yet to be determined. Are you aware that battery degradation will eventually lead to a battery so degraded that it will be unuseable as a power source for a car? With enough miles and enough deep discharges/full charges it's not entirely unlikely that could happen before the unlimited miles warranty expires. Just be clear that under the terms of the warranty, it still wouldn't be covered if it's due to gradual degradation. Tesla may or may not cover that sort of thing under goodwill warranty - it would be their option. That's something the OP doesn't appear to understand. Or perhaps he does and that's why he's put arbitration off the table.

In an ideal world, all battery replacements would be free, regardless of how the car was driven/charged or how many miles were on it because we do know that usage affects how fast batteries degrade and, while batteries are improving all the time, the early batteries, before Tesla had enough sales and years of experience to update the battery chemistry, cooling capacity and charge algrithms, degrade more quickly than those in newer models, particularly in the heat of Southern Texas. And Tesla was well aware that could bankrupt them before they could grow into a world-changing company. That's certainly why they had the foresight to exclude gradual battery degradation from warranty coverage. So it saddens me to see someone fortunate enough to own three expensive Tesla's turn from someone who was supporting the growth and success of Tesla to someone who is damaging their good name by making unproven claims in an attempt to get a free battery, claims they are not willing to allow a neutral third party to decide based on the actual facts.

 

[efusco]

Moderator note:
Folks, the tone of this VERY long thread is getting a bit out of hand. I've been snipping and editing way too often the past 2 days.
If you can't keep things topical, civil and productive, I'm just going to close the thread. And if anyone intentionally tries to derail it by being insulting, you'll be on probation.

Let's just chill out a bit, keep things on topic, be nice--kindergarten rules apply.
Thanks.

 

[HMARTINPT]

To moderator: I see that many insults and profanities in this thread that are still being left up on one side of the argument. I actually referred to thread #314 specifically and you have let that profanity remain. Could you please explain why?

 

[MP3Mike]

To moderator: I see that many insults and profanities in this thread that are still being left up on one side of the argument. I actually referred to thread #314 specifically and you have let that profanity remain. Could you please explain why?

Have you reported the post by clicking the REPORT link on it? (My understanding is that the moderators primarily work based on posts that are reported to them.)

 

[HMARTINPT]

Have you reported the post by clicking the REPORT link on it? (My understanding is that the moderators primarily work based on posts that are reported to them.)

No. It was in the first post that the moderator took down. I assumed they read it if they took it down.

 

[efusco]

No. It was in the first post that the moderator took down. I assumed they read it if they took it down.

Don't assume. If there's a post that is inappropriate, particularly in a 29 page long thread, report it.

 

[Shaggy]

I thought that somebody has offered the best answer already. He has BOTH a normal degradation of the battery AND and bad module that caused the range estimate to be 'wonky' and die suddenly at the low end. I would have thought Tesla pulling and testing the battery and or testing it via 3rd party software would show it...I cannot recall the software that you can buy that lets an owner get detail info out of the car including battery numbers. It might not be practical to try a different service center to convince them to pull and test the battery.

 

[StealthP3D]

I thought that somebody has offered the best answer already. He has BOTH a normal degradation of the battery AND and bad module that caused the range estimate to be 'wonky' and die suddenly at the low end. I would have thought Tesla pulling and testing the battery and or testing it via 3rd party software would show it.

Where is the evidence of a bad module in the OP's battery? Warranties are based on evidence, not speculation.

Tesla has already diagnosed the OP's battery. I think if there was a bad module that should be covered under warranty, Tesla would have found it. Of course, anyone can make a mistake but where is the evidence that the OP knows something that Tesla doesn't? I would have thought the OP shared all his knowledge with Tesla.

 

[R3dstang66]

Was the car diagnosed at the service center, or over the air (OTA)?

If not, try calling the service number and seeing if they will check battery health OTA.
If they won't. you might be able to find a local TMCer who can check the individual cell block voltages. If one (or more) have a failed cell, that should be covered.
(also, don't use all caps, it's considered shouting).

Battery health is not part of annual checkups. They told me that it would cost i think $180 for that 1 incident check. Luckily they did check it for me good faith. I just want them to honor the lifetime mileage warranty if anything does go wrong. I have a little over 2 years left on my warranty.

 

[dgatwood]

I disagree. Data storage is insanely cheap these days. It would be foolhardy to NOT keep pertinent battery information for the life of the car. Please support your contention that Tesla routinely discards that kind of critical battery info while the car is still in service.

It's not about cost. There are legal reasons why companies try not to retain personally identifiable data over the long-term any more than is necessary to meet critical needs or legal obligations:

• Any data that exists can be subpoenaed. No company wants to deal with that any more than is necessary.
• If data gets leaked accidentally, they could be out considerable amounts of money proportional to the amount of misappropriated data.
• Many countries have strict laws limiting data collection, and violating those laws is expensive. California recently passed similar laws that go into effect next year.

And lest you say that battery info isn't personally identifiable information, I would point out a few things:

• It is tied to the vehicle, and there are likely to be a single-digit number of people who can use the vehicle.
• Knowing that someone used an unusual amount of battery power between two one-minute samples could be pertinent information in legal actions related to, for example, vehicular homicides with no witnesses.
• Knowing that the car used power over a multi-hour period could be pertinent in determining whether someone was actually at home when a crime was being committed (unrelated to the vehicle).
• Knowing that the car used power over a multi-week period could be pertinent in determining whether someone claiming disability was actually on bed rest or driving around to area beaches and picking up women.

The question becomes one of deciding how much you have to throw away before it ceases to be interesting, and most companies simply assume that everything is personally identifiable and potentially dangerous to retain indefinitely, and thus base their retention policies on the age of the data. Tesla's data retention policy claims to do the same, but provides no hard numbers, so we really can't say for sure what the actual duration is. But I've read various threads that have suggested a retention period measured in double-digit days, and that seems pretty likely to be correct, IMO.

 

[dark cloud]

I

• ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or driving around to area beaches and picking up women.

.

Excellent post, however I think there are several female Tesla owners who might change the wording of that sentence. But point taken.

Would anybody here be happy to find out that Tesla was selling information to insurance companies?

 

[dgatwood]

Excellent post, however I think there are several female Tesla owners who might change the wording of that sentence. But point taken.

Female Tesla owners faking disability claims can pick up women on the beach, too. It's the 21st century.

But point taken.

 

[David99]

The re-calibration at the Tesla service center should have fixed any errors or incorrect estimates in the BMS. At this point the car should report the battery range correctly. The fact that it dropped 9% within a week shows that the problem is not:

#1 a BMS inaccuracy
#2 not related to degradation because degradation doesn't happen at a rate of 9% per week.

I think the OP has an even stronger case now that we can see the issue is not normal degradation.

Sudden drops on range can not be explained with normal degradation. They also cannot be explained with a 'confused' BMS (battery management system) because it was just serviced and recalibated by Tesla. Tesla's warranty excludes normal degradation. In my opinion the events have established well enough that it cannot be normal degradation.