not too long ago - the most direct and popular route from Dallas-FtWorth metroplex (8m population) to Denver (3m people) and into the ski resorts / popular holiday destinations of the Rockies had a *fun* 236 mile gap between Amarillo TX Supercharger and Trinidad Colorado Supercharger. And that was 236 miles constantly uphill into the mountains against prevailing winds. Even EVs with 300+ miles of range struggled or simply couldn't it in the winter. Currently we are still waiting for the Lubbock Supercharger opening up direct routing over West Texas into New Mexico and don't even think about taking your Tesla to Big Bend National Park unless you have at least 300+ miles of range... long story short: not every EV owner lives on the coast and road-tripping through red states isn't always fun or doable. also the 280 miles of range will be well under 170 miles in adverse conditions.I'm trying to think of the nicest way to put this.. that is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing.. I have ever read on this forum.
Take a good look at how long it actually takes to complete a 1000km (600 mile) road trip with some of the most popular EV's sold today. The thing that jumps out to me most is that 60kWh LFP powered Model 3 Standard Range (aka the cheapest car Tesla sells).. can complete the entire 600mile trip INCLUDING stopping to charge the battery.. and it only takes 20mins longer than the "330mile" Model Y LR.
Are you really trying to say an EV that takes 20mins longer.. to drive 600 miles is somehow useless?
Bjørn's 1,000 Km Challenge: New Model 3 RWD (LFP-60) Is A Beast
In the most recent 1,000 km challenge, Bjørn Nyland tested the latest MIC Tesla Model 3 RWD (former Standard Range Plus/SR+) with about a 60 kWh LFP battery.insideevs.com
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Inflationary Price Increase coming?
- Thread starter goitsme48
- Start date
I am just glad I am not a skier or mountain/national park kind of person. All I need is nice golf courses to play, hence no range issue!! =)
Oh I'm sure there are distances longer than that where there are simply no EV chargers aren't available. The point is that EV's aren't meant to serve every possible purpose.. but even the 'standard' range ones fit the daily needs of most people. Thanks for pointing out your particular scenario where an EV with under 300 miles wouldn't make that specific trip.. but more importantly.. thanks for also pointing out "not too long ago".
Meaning that more EV chargers can & will eventually be added. If EVs are truly replacing their ICE counterparts.. and governments are serious about banning new ICE sales by 2030.. then that means millions of EV chargers need to be added every year. Making more of these situations a thing of the past.
There is no way I would trust any Tesla to make a 236-mile trip.. uphill.. in the winter.. with no chargers in-between. In situations like that.. I'd do the same thing I would do if I needed to haul some furniture, carry 7 passengers, or fly somewhere on a trip. I'd rent another car.
Or better yet just fly. My Tesla works for 99% of the things I need it to do.. for the other 1% I have no problem admitting its just not the right tool for the job.
I certainly agree most people should buy as much range as they can comfortably afford. But the extra range isn't free.,. and batteries are extremely heavy. The entire reason we are having this conversation is that a brand new Model Y Long Range AWD with 330 miles of EPA range.. now costs $67K OTD (including all delivery fees, taxes, tags, and registration). And that most people would be just fine with this cheaper proposed standard range Model Y AWD.. that has been *suggested* to be $10K cheaper. Theoretically.. that's still spending almost $55K for a standard range MY. That said.. $55K is certainly more affordable than the current basic Model Y.. which now runs almost $70K.. without adding any options!
At some point, many people would end up paying a lot of money for something that practically never gets fully used. Or even if fully used on occasion.. it means the vast majority of the time you are carrying around a lot of unnecessary weight. The equivalent would be buying a 7 passenger vehicle when you mostly carry 2-4 people (which is exactly what many people driving these big Suburbans & Expeditions are doing). Because if you are carrying around a 400-mile battery pack for every trip, and 99% of your trips are 50-200 miles.. this just becomes wasteful from a financial.. and an efficiency standpoint.
For example, Lucid will now sell you a sedan that's truly capable of a 500-mile range. That said, it also costs $170,000: Watch Record-Setting Lucid Air Dream Edition 70-MPH Range Test
If more range is always the "better" answer, why not immediately trade your current EV for this car? Why stop at 500 miles? Why not a 1000 mile range EV?
Elon actually touched on this a couple of weeks ago.. pointing out why Tesla never bothered with a 600-mile range vehicle: Elon Musk: Tesla could have made a 600-mile-range electric car a year ago
His exact words: "We could’ve made a 600 mile Model S 12 months ago, but that would’ve made the product worse in my opinion, as 99.9% of the time you’d be carrying unneeded battery mass, which makes acceleration, handling, and efficiency worse. Even our 400+ mile range car is more than almost anyone will use."
Personally.. I think the "better" answer is to build more chargers. DC fast chargers should be as common as gas stations. And battery/charger technology should keep getting advancements that make charging times quicker. While it's certainly going to take a while to get there.. we are headed in the right direction.. and the new Hyundai/Kia EV's that start at $40K and can charge from 0-80% in 18mins show that progress.
insideevs.com
This is the answer that will get more people to switch from ICE to EVs. Not 300-mile EVs with $70K prices.. 400-mile EV's with $100K prices.. or 500-mile range EVs with $170K prices.
At some point, many people would end up paying a lot of money for something that practically never gets fully used. Or even if fully used on occasion.. it means the vast majority of the time you are carrying around a lot of unnecessary weight. The equivalent would be buying a 7 passenger vehicle when you mostly carry 2-4 people (which is exactly what many people driving these big Suburbans & Expeditions are doing). Because if you are carrying around a 400-mile battery pack for every trip, and 99% of your trips are 50-200 miles.. this just becomes wasteful from a financial.. and an efficiency standpoint.
For example, Lucid will now sell you a sedan that's truly capable of a 500-mile range. That said, it also costs $170,000: Watch Record-Setting Lucid Air Dream Edition 70-MPH Range Test
If more range is always the "better" answer, why not immediately trade your current EV for this car? Why stop at 500 miles? Why not a 1000 mile range EV?
Elon actually touched on this a couple of weeks ago.. pointing out why Tesla never bothered with a 600-mile range vehicle: Elon Musk: Tesla could have made a 600-mile-range electric car a year ago
His exact words: "We could’ve made a 600 mile Model S 12 months ago, but that would’ve made the product worse in my opinion, as 99.9% of the time you’d be carrying unneeded battery mass, which makes acceleration, handling, and efficiency worse. Even our 400+ mile range car is more than almost anyone will use."
Personally.. I think the "better" answer is to build more chargers. DC fast chargers should be as common as gas stations. And battery/charger technology should keep getting advancements that make charging times quicker. While it's certainly going to take a while to get there.. we are headed in the right direction.. and the new Hyundai/Kia EV's that start at $40K and can charge from 0-80% in 18mins show that progress.
Alex On Autos Tests Out The Charging Speed Of The Hyundai Ioniq 5
We examine the first drive video review of the Hyundai Oiniq 5 by Alex On Autos in which he tests out the vehicle's charging speed.
insideevs.com
This is the answer that will get more people to switch from ICE to EVs. Not 300-mile EVs with $70K prices.. 400-mile EV's with $100K prices.. or 500-mile range EVs with $170K prices.
Last edited:
the only problem with a 280 miles Model Y for $55k+ is that a) it puts $10k delta between the Model Ys with 280 and 330 miles of range which is quite a bit and *may* eat into higher margin Model Y sales .... and ... most importantly ... a VW ID.4 with the exact same stated range is (after tax rebates) $10k-$15k cheaper (!) than the Model Y - even generously equipped. Or you could get a Mach E California Edition with better range for about the same.I certainly agree most people should buy as much range as they can comfortably afford. But the extra range isn't free.,. and batteries are extremely heavy. The entire reason we are having this conversation is that a brand new Model Y Long Range AWD with 330 miles of EPA range.. now costs $67K OTD (including all delivery fees, taxes, tags, and registration). And that most people would be just fine with this cheaper proposed standard range Model Y AWD.. that has been *suggested* to be $10K cheaper. Theoretically.. that's still spending almost $55K for a standard range MY. That said.. $55K is certainly more affordable than the current basic Model Y.. which now runs almost $70K.. without adding any options!
At some point, many people would end up paying a lot of money for something that practically never gets fully used. Or even if fully used on occasion.. it means the vast majority of the time you are carrying around a lot of unnecessary weight. The equivalent would be buying a 7 passenger vehicle when you mostly carry 2-4 people (which is exactly what many people driving these big Suburbans & Expeditions are doing). Because if you are carrying around a 400-mile battery pack for every trip, and 99% of your trips are 50-200 miles.. this just becomes wasteful from a financial.. and an efficiency standpoint.
For example, Lucid will now sell you a sedan that's truly capable of a 500-mile range. That said, it also costs $170,000: Watch Record-Setting Lucid Air Dream Edition 70-MPH Range Test
If more range is always the "better" answer, why not immediately trade your current EV for this car? Why stop at 500 miles? Why not a 1000 mile range EV?
Elon actually touched on this a couple of weeks ago.. pointing out why Tesla never bothered with a 600-mile range vehicle: Elon Musk: Tesla could have made a 600-mile-range electric car a year ago
His exact words: "We could’ve made a 600 mile Model S 12 months ago, but that would’ve made the product worse in my opinion, as 99.9% of the time you’d be carrying unneeded battery mass, which makes acceleration, handling, and efficiency worse. Even our 400+ mile range car is more than almost anyone will use."
Personally.. I think the "better" answer is to build more chargers. DC fast chargers should be as common as gas stations. And battery/charger technology should keep getting advancements that make charging times quicker. While it's certainly going to take a while to get there.. we are headed in the right direction.. and the new Hyundai/Kia EV's that start at $40K and can charge from 0-80% in 18mins show that progress.
Alex On Autos Tests Out The Charging Speed Of The Hyundai Ioniq 5
We examine the first drive video review of the Hyundai Oiniq 5 by Alex On Autos in which he tests out the vehicle's charging speed.
This is the answer that will get more people to switch from ICE to EVs. Not 300-mile EVs with $70K prices.. 400-mile EV's with $100K prices.. or 500-mile range EVs with $170K prices.
You can’t get California edition since it has been sold out until 2023.
The Funny thing is that IF the standard range 280-mile range is with LFP batteries, it is pretty similar to my long range in my normal daily use. I routinely keep my car charged to 85%, usually around 285 miles. With LFP batteries 100% charge is OK for regular daily charging. What's the diff, if you don't do road trips? 
I have no gripe because I got mine with the $52,450 price plus $1,000 for white interior, out the door about $55,000 NJ no sales tax.
I have no gripe because I got mine with the $52,450 price plus $1,000 for white interior, out the door about $55,000 NJ no sales tax.
As you can imagine... I'm your huckleberry! We are now a 100% EV home.. no ICE vehicles in our garage. Wanna take a wild guess on which two EVs we currently own?
1) 2021 Model Y Standard Range
2) 2021 VW ID.4 RWD
I completely agree that a 280mile MYSR for $55K would eat into the current $63K MYLR sales. But take a look at what has already happened with the Model 3 for three straight years now. The standard-range version has been available the entire time... and has 272 miles of range with the new 60kWh LFP battery and is recommended to 100% for daily use.. all for $47K. Meanwhile, Tesla still sells the M3LR w/AWD & 358 miles of range for $54.5K. When you consider the recommended 90% daily charging rate on the M3LR, the daily range drops down to 322 miles. Does a $55K MYSR AWD really sound that crazy anymore?
As for the VW ID.4.. we got an absolute killer deal at MSRP and no markups. And you are right. For around $40K we purchased an SUV crossover style EV that has 250 miles of real-world range. It was $20K cheaper than the bare-bones Model Y in December 2021, which is exactly why we purchased it. I personally drive both of these cars weekly. I generally use the ID.4 for daily dropoff & pickup of our kids to school.. as it's easier to get them in/out of that car vs the Y. I also greatly prefer CarPlay over the infotainment in the Tesla. Hell.. the other day when it was 75 degrees and the sun started beating me down through the glass roof of the ID.4.. I remembered oh yeah!! This $40K car actually has a powered sunshade! The amount of features you get for the price of the ID.4 is unbelievable.
That said, everything isn't great with the ID.4 The infotainment is definitely glitchy. I've put about 3000 miles on the car, over the past 3 months so I have gotten some pretty good time behind the wheel. I would say about 1 out 10 drives the car.. my iPhone does not get detected when plugged in OR the infotainment screen will be completely black when getting into the car. Both are pretty easy fixes.. either unplug and replug the cable in to recognize the phone. Or if the screen is completely black then the infotainment needs to be rebooted by holding down the infotainment power button for about 10 seconds. I've also recently discovered another glitch where if you turn on the setting to fold the rear mirror down when reversing.. it sometimes stays folded down. Finally, the ID.4 has been delivered for an entire year now.. and not a single OTA update has hit the vehicle. VW keeps promising this 3.0 update.. I'll personally never believe it until it happens.
This brings me to the Model Y. I was just pointing to someone how I got another update yesterday. That's now 23 total OTA updates.. in exactly 1 year of ownership. Tesla is updating my car about every 2 weeks on average. This makes the Y always feel new to drive. And driving is way more fun.. I cannot imagine how much faster a Performance is.. if this MYSR already feels like a rocket! The Y feel exotic.. (especially with the red paint, white later & black wheels) and the Supercharging network is unmatched. For the price, I paid for that MYSR... I literally got the EV bargain of the decade!
That said.. Here come the real questions:
- Would I buy the current MYLR sold right now? The answer is no. Flat out no. I'm not paying almost $70K for an MYLR. No offense to those who are placing new orders right now.. but a Model Y is simply not worth that much money.
- Would I pay $50K for an Ioniq5 or a KIA EV6? Yes. Matter of fact that's exactly what we plan to do with the glitchy ID.4. My wife is fed up with the glitches, scared to conduct business while driving the car because she has lost her phone connection during important conference calls.. and she wants to trade the ID.4 for an EV6. She wants a car with a sunroof lol. Hopefully, we can find an EV6 GT-line close to MSRP.
- Would I buy this *rumored/suggested* MYSR AWD w/280 miles for $55K? Yes. I think Tesla still has quite a lead when it comes to overall EV experience. And the things they do well (Overall Performance, OTA updates, Supercharging, Smartphone App).. greatly outweigh my remaining gripes with the vehicle (No CarPlay, No real blindspot monitoring, No rear-cross traffic alerts, No HUD). Paying a $10K premium for a Tesla is a safe & smart decision. Paying a $20K premium for a Tesla?? I'll look elsewhere.
The Funny thing is that IF the standard range 280-mile range is with LFP batteries, it is pretty similar to my long range in my normal daily use. I routinely keep my car charged to 85%, usually around 285 miles. With LFP batteries 100% charge is OK for regular daily charging. What's the diff, if you don't do road trips?
I have no gripe because I got mine with the $52,450 price plus $1,000 for white interior, out the door about $55,000 NJ no sales tax.
Exactly what I just pointed out. Do not forget that the LFP battery is recommended to be daily charged to 100%. It is a very, very competitive drivetrain.
Even if you DO use it for road trips.. the LFP car will still get you within a few minutes of the LR car.. as long as superchargers are available along your route.
Bjørn's 1,000 Km Challenge: New Model 3 RWD (LFP-60) Is A Beast
In the most recent 1,000 km challenge, Bjørn Nyland tested the latest MIC Tesla Model 3 RWD (former Standard Range Plus/SR+) with about a 60 kWh LFP battery.
insideevs.com
how long does it take to charge a LFP battery from 80% to 100% at a Supercharger? Or from 90% to 100% ?Exactly what I just pointed out. Do not forget that the LFP battery is recommended to be daily charged to 100%. It is a very, very competitive drivetrain.
Even if you DO use it for road trips.. the LFP car will still get you within a few minutes of the LR car.. as long as superchargers are available along your route.
Bjørn's 1,000 Km Challenge: New Model 3 RWD (LFP-60) Is A Beast
In the most recent 1,000 km challenge, Bjørn Nyland tested the latest MIC Tesla Model 3 RWD (former Standard Range Plus/SR+) with about a 60 kWh LFP battery.
Because 80% of 330 miles is still better for Supercharging than 80% of 278 miles .... homecharging overnight to 100% is doable but then again I don't need more than 150 miles daily range ... for roadtripping supercharging all the way to 100% to get the 278 miles will be painfully slow
Not sure how long it takes from 80% to 100% at a Supercharger.. or 90% to 100%.
But I bet you and I are both shocked (pun intended lol) to find out the LFP battery apparently supercharges FASTER than regular nickel battery from 40% to 99%. The LFP battery pack in the 2022 Model 3 RWD apparently took 42mins to Supercharge from 40 to 99%.
Tesla Model 3 With New LFP Battery Now Supercharges Even Faster? - CleanTechnica
Initial supercharging results suggest that the new lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery powered Tesla Model 3 can supercharge even faster than the version with the nickel battery. This looks promising, and is not unexpected.
cleantechnica.com
"China-based website 42HOW conducted a side-by-side test of the new LFP battery Tesla Model 3 and the regular nickel battery Tesla Model 3. Photos tweeted via Ray4Tesla (access the tweet below for full sized photos) recorded that the speed of supercharging from ~40% to 99% was significantly faster for the LFP variant:"
"The supercharging session photos in the above tweet demonstrate that the original nickel-based battery Tesla Model 3 took ~62 minutes to go from 40% to 99% state of charge (SOC), whilst the LFP variant took just ~42 minutes to get from 41% to 99%. Although these SOCs at best represent approximately the “second half” of a typical charging session, the LFP nevertheless would seem to demonstrate a time saving of around 32% or approximately a third."
How many LFP batteries have you charged to validate your wisdom?
Similar threads
