Elon's awesome.
I like his politics and his rockets, but his car company is pissing me off.
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Tesla price increase round just started
- Thread starter CTruck_BMW
- Start date
I like his politics and his rockets, but his car company is pissing me off.
Define better and best?
With all the engineering and design issues, poor build quality, crappy ride, and worst possible service to back it up, I would say it would be very hard to name a single car that is worse for $75K. Having a big iPad and fast acceleration in exchange for all the problems I have experienced with this car doesn't get close to making up for all the problems.
Why are you here then : ) ... Go get an i5 or Kia EV if those are better options.
My Model S has ZERO rattles and cracks, has matching panel gaps all around, does not have any single design issue, the leather feels better than that in my 175K S-class. You were probably stuck with a bad vehicle... Mine is perfect.
The challenge and question is still open... name a 75K sedan EV that is better than the S or a 89K EV better than the S-Paid.
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Mercedes EQE for $74,900.
Better ride quality than the Model S. Better interior than the Model S. And quite frankly, emits a better lifestyle image than the Tesla.
Supercharging network doesn't really matter. At this price bracket, many owners charge at home.
The acceleration is the last selling point for Tesla. I have the Model S Plaid + carbon cermaic brakes (used to own Porsche 991 GT3, 718 GT4), and while the acceleration is incredible all the way up to 150 mph, it feels "just" like a roller coaster. It's entertainment for a couple of minutes and that's it. It's not something comfortable long-term.
If you want 0-60 acceleration, easy answer, just get the S Plaid. It's not even that expensive. However, if you value other things (status/prestige, interior comfort, ride quality), you should look at other EVs. I advise all Tesla owners to try other EVs on Turo. Depending on your utility function, you'll be surprised how much better they are.
Not a fan of the look at all. I'd look at the BMW I5 instead. Loaded with new tech great interior and build quality.
I would pull the trigger on one of those but I do drive long distances sometimes and want the SC network. Plus the hatchback is great.
Long answer and still didn't manage to even reference more than one vehicle, that's even hands down a lesser vehicle from all angles except for interior packages/options. I have been owning Mbenz vehicles for two decades, and owned over 9 Mercedes vehicles, I rented the EQE as well as the EQS for days. I had all S-class vehicles from the last 4 generations. If you think the EQE is even close to being a car that is worth 75K you are absolutely incorrect. I just can't see myself driving that exterior mouse shape or egg share. Also, the picture looks pretty nice from the outside especially when you don't have the first hands experience with the recent Mbenz cars. All EQE and EQS vehicles are facing a ton of challenges drivetrain wise and you can see more Lamon EQEs on the market than any other EV. Regardless, even if I take the EQE as a potential alternative, i still haven't heard any other reasonable EV SEDAN* alternatives for 75K that are as well rounded as the Model S. Great looking car, awesome stability, out of this world UI, great batteries much batter than any other car, awesome range, comfortable seats, and reliable (not many cars last 10 years with minimal maintenance). If the ride quality is the issue, you don't simply aim at one of the fastest cars on the plant, or even a Tesla LR and expect you back to get massaged like that in a Mbenz. Things are subjective, but the Model S is still the most well rounded EV Sedan for 75K. Can't even name another car that is as good as the S (well, beside the EQE example that's obviously wasn't a good one)
That's a slow car, 0-60 at 6.2 seconds, that's Camry territory and it looks worse than Camry. Interior is not good at all, way over done, way too busy.
BMW i5 is OK, but also looks boring.
Taycan is a really nice car, I had one. Terrible software, terrible range, not good reliability either. Its a lot more expensive than Model S.
Model S really has no peer at price point.
Prices will come back to normal in 2024 once the rebate rush is over. They sell the more of the rebate version or poverty models more than the plaid so , plaids purchases will be on hold till the rebate period is over.
AMPd
Well-Known Member
What rebate are you talking about?
The prices are “normal” the plaid is a 90k car. The long range is a 75k car. Sales haven’t exactly exploded since the price drop which means they’re right where they need to be with the price to continue selling at a steady rate.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
(bolded mine) I feel the same about the model 3 at its price point.
The lethargy of that mercedes exemplifies it. 6 seconds 0-60 isn't "slow", but for an EV it is slow; it's very much entry level. Slower than an Ariya, and right there with toyota's bz4z whatever the hell it's called. $75k should be buying more in an electric sedan.
I won't be here for much longer. I am selling this piece of junk pretty soon.
Yeah let us know what will be your "next" piece of junk that will be even worse than the current one : ) ... U can label all of them as junk, but still, there are levels.... U will NOT find a better one for the same price (aka 75K or 89K) for the same reason you could not even name one now. Unless u invest 120-140K for an i7, which looks miserable but at least is a good flagship sedan and take all the risk of their new EV tech yet with poor range, there are just no options for the same price as the Model S. Please be mindful and reasonable.
If you've been disappointed with Tesla lately, take a look around:
VW:
• Invested $700M into Xpeng to jointly develop EVs in an attempt to counteract losing market share in China (you only team up with competition when you cannot do it yourself)
• VW was once the biggest automaker in China (its biggest market) - from 2008 to 2020 it held ~15% market share...that's now down to ~10%
• Cancelled the Trinity EV project facility ($2B) citing "complex industry challenges" - instead they will move production to Zwickau
• Terminated three-shift production at the Zwickau plant due to muted demand for EV's (this is where VW makes cars like the ID.3, ID.4 and Audi Q4)
• VW's net cash flow was $11B in 2019 and it was down to $5B in 2022
• Porsche Macan and Audi Q6 EV models delayed due to software issues
Ford:
• Recalled 35k Mach-E's to replace faulty battery components that were resulting in lost power while driving
• Recalled ~1,500 F-150 Lightning EV's to replace the cabin coolant heaters that were not manufactured correctly
• Cut a shift from F-150 Lightning production due to lagging demand
• Warned it would lose $4.5B on EV business this year
• Delayed EV target production rate of 600k/year to 2024 from '23 and its goal of 2M prod. rate by the end of 2026 is now "we don't know when"
• Facing material cost increases from UAW negotiations
GM:
• Delayed higher volume production of electric pickup trucks (Silverado and Sierra) from 2024 to late 2025 due to flattening demand
• Set to end production of its best selling EV (Chevy Bolt) at the end of this year
• Cadillac Lyriq has only sold 5,334 units YTD (through Q3) in the US in 2023
• GM's market share in China (its top market for more than a decade) has dropped from 15% in 2015 to 9.8% in 2022, the first time below 10% since 2004 and its earnings from operations there are down 70% since 2014
• Facing material cost increases from UAW negotiations
• GM's autonomous project Cruise forced to take 50% of its fleet off the roads due to accidents, one with a fire truck
• Cruise lost $560M in Q1 this year and is being investigated by NHTSA over pedestrian injuries from Cruise vehicles
Meanwhile, Tesla refreshes Model 3 and (partially) Model Y, getting ready for Cybertruck deliveries, posts record Energy margins, is still generating positive FCF, has $26B in cash, doubled AI compute q/q which helps alleviate main FSD bottleneck, increased 4680 prod. 40% q/q, invested record amounts in CapEx and R&D for the future, and responsibly prepared investors for a potential slowdown
*Citation: Dillon Loomis "@DillonLoomis22" on twitter:
Yet we have people absurdly calling Tesla "leaderless" and calling for a new $TSLA CEO (Technoking) despite everything Elon has done and all of the evidence pointing to the fact that building compelling EV's profitably at scale is incredibly difficult (as is solving for autonomy)
VW:
• Invested $700M into Xpeng to jointly develop EVs in an attempt to counteract losing market share in China (you only team up with competition when you cannot do it yourself)
• VW was once the biggest automaker in China (its biggest market) - from 2008 to 2020 it held ~15% market share...that's now down to ~10%
• Cancelled the Trinity EV project facility ($2B) citing "complex industry challenges" - instead they will move production to Zwickau
• Terminated three-shift production at the Zwickau plant due to muted demand for EV's (this is where VW makes cars like the ID.3, ID.4 and Audi Q4)
• VW's net cash flow was $11B in 2019 and it was down to $5B in 2022
• Porsche Macan and Audi Q6 EV models delayed due to software issues
Ford:
• Recalled 35k Mach-E's to replace faulty battery components that were resulting in lost power while driving
• Recalled ~1,500 F-150 Lightning EV's to replace the cabin coolant heaters that were not manufactured correctly
• Cut a shift from F-150 Lightning production due to lagging demand
• Warned it would lose $4.5B on EV business this year
• Delayed EV target production rate of 600k/year to 2024 from '23 and its goal of 2M prod. rate by the end of 2026 is now "we don't know when"
• Facing material cost increases from UAW negotiations
GM:
• Delayed higher volume production of electric pickup trucks (Silverado and Sierra) from 2024 to late 2025 due to flattening demand
• Set to end production of its best selling EV (Chevy Bolt) at the end of this year
• Cadillac Lyriq has only sold 5,334 units YTD (through Q3) in the US in 2023
• GM's market share in China (its top market for more than a decade) has dropped from 15% in 2015 to 9.8% in 2022, the first time below 10% since 2004 and its earnings from operations there are down 70% since 2014
• Facing material cost increases from UAW negotiations
• GM's autonomous project Cruise forced to take 50% of its fleet off the roads due to accidents, one with a fire truck
• Cruise lost $560M in Q1 this year and is being investigated by NHTSA over pedestrian injuries from Cruise vehicles
Meanwhile, Tesla refreshes Model 3 and (partially) Model Y, getting ready for Cybertruck deliveries, posts record Energy margins, is still generating positive FCF, has $26B in cash, doubled AI compute q/q which helps alleviate main FSD bottleneck, increased 4680 prod. 40% q/q, invested record amounts in CapEx and R&D for the future, and responsibly prepared investors for a potential slowdown
*Citation: Dillon Loomis "@DillonLoomis22" on twitter:
Yet we have people absurdly calling Tesla "leaderless" and calling for a new $TSLA CEO (Technoking) despite everything Elon has done and all of the evidence pointing to the fact that building compelling EV's profitably at scale is incredibly difficult (as is solving for autonomy)
it is obvious this guy does not have a model S.
He is one of these guys that can hardly afford a toyota camry , but tells everyone how a Lucid 250K is better than Tesla or why he hates the Yoke so much.
Yet he has never been inside one
if you really have a Tesla model S - what is the last 6 digits of your VIN or better show us a picture of your build date (it is located in the drivers door side
If you read through his post history it’s clear he owns an S and at least used to own a 3 and Y
They are good about honoring the price before you take delivery. In my case the price dropped $2k at delivery so I got that as a refund check roughly 3-4 months later.. but I got it. The problem was I had already paid the price when I ordered so they couldn’t just refund me electronically I guess. Now to see how the tax refund mess works for my 2023 tax return. Doing everything possible to underpay my taxes and owe the full $7500.
You really should have done that a long time ago, based on how unhappy you have articulated you are. Especially with as many cars as you have said you have owned, there isnt any reason to own a car you hate. Anyone who can afford these cars (especially S and X) can also afford to dump one and lose some cash to get out of it.
Life is too short to have this much negative emotion about something that is rectified pretty easily.
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