Installation of 14-50 outlet and upgrade house electrical system to 200 AMP from 100 AMP

[TimCMass]

Hi all, I plan on upgrading my house to a 200 amp electrical system. During the upgrade I plan on having a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed in the garage. I recently had an electrician come over and give me an estimate. Since I am pretty clueless as to what is actually needed for the upgrade, I was wondering if anyone could comment on the estimate. $5500 seems like a lot. Does the estimate look okay to folks, or should I get a second/third opinion from other local electricians in my area?

Thanks!

 

[Dmagyar]

Hate to comment on anyone’s est., but does look a bit high. Also what’s the purpose of the $2,250 discount? Also the reason they’re indicating PVC instead of a steel conduit riser? Not sure PVC is the best riser material as it’s not as rigid as steel conduit...
But no one see’s the job, in the same way: I quoted someone to install new downlights in the first floor ceiling of a two story house, when I followed up the owner said I was twice as high as the person they selected to do the job...But alas I was a licensed EC, with 2 million dollars liability insurance, and price is king...

Get another estimate, with some recent job references, but do make sure that whomever you choose is qualified, is state licensed (check with the CSLB), as well as carries liability insurance...

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Be sure to research the Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property Credit as you can receive a refund of 30% of the total cost of parts and labor: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8911.pdf

We were able to take advantage of it several years ago when we first put in three 14-50 outlets and then again two years ago when we upgraded to three load-balanced wall connectors. Each time, we received a 30% refund on all expenses.

 

[TimCMass]

Hate to comment on anyone’s est., but does look a bit high. Also what’s the purpose of the $2,250 discount? Also the reason they’re indicating PVC instead of a steel conduit riser? Not sure PVC is the best riser material as it’s not as rigid as steel conduit...
But no one see’s the job, in the same way: I quoted someone to install new downlights in the first floor ceiling of a two story house, when I followed up the owner said I was twice as high as the person they selected to do the job...But alas I was a licensed EC, with 2 million dollars liability insurance, and price is king...

Get another estimate, with some recent job references, but do make sure that whomever you choose is qualified, is state licensed (check with the CSLB), as well as carries liability insurance...

Not sure about the discount either - it is probably just a gimmick to make it look like you're getting a good deal when in fact you aren't.

I'll ask about steel riser versus pvc to get some clarification. Thanks for the comments. Anyone else?

 

[TimCMass]

Be sure to research the Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property Credit as you can receive a refund of 30% of the total cost of parts and labor: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8911.pdf

We were able to take advantage of it several years ago when we first put in three 14-50 outlets and then again two years ago when we upgraded to three load-balanced wall connectors. Each time, we received a 30% refund on all expenses.

Good to know, thanks!

 

[jimmythefrack]

If you have the room one of the least complicated ways to upgrade your service is to put a new 200amp load center in and then sub your old 100amp main off of it, making the new 200amp panel the main and then adding new circuits to the 200 amp panel. The 2 panels can just sit next to each other. This eliminates a lot of work having re-wire all of the circuit breakers in the panel that's already functioning fine.

 

[Silver Rocket]

Hi all, I plan on upgrading my house to a 200 amp electrical system. During the upgrade I plan on having a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed in the garage. I recently had an electrician come over and give me an estimate. Since I am pretty clueless as to what is actually needed for the upgrade, I was wondering if anyone could comment on the estimate. $5500 seems like a lot. Does the estimate look okay to folks, or should I get a second/third opinion from other local electricians in my area?

Thanks!

View attachment 576197

Almost exactly what I paid in California.

 

[qdeathstar]

seems high, but not out of the question depending on your exact circumstances

 

[user212_nr]

These itemized proposals are totally fake. The real proposal which they know has two parts:

1) Parts
2) Labor

You can ask them for the real numbers if you want.

Lets say they are spending, 1 day's labor, and $1500 worth of parts, then that works out to $3,500-$4,000.

They are billing you for each item as if it was a separate job that takes all day. Probably worth your time to get a few more opinions.

 

[eevee-fan]

These itemized proposals are totally fake. The real proposal which they know has two parts:

1) Parts
2) Labor

You can ask them for the real numbers if you want.

Lets say they are spending, 1 day's labor, and $1500 worth of parts, then that works out to $3,500-$4,000.

They are billing you for each item as if it was a separate job that takes all day. Probably worth your time to get a few more opinions.

I would say the "discount" is the labor savings from doing multi-jobs concurrently.

 

[user212_nr]

I would say the "discount" is the labor savings from doing multi-jobs concurrently.

The entire proposal is fake. They will shift numbers from one line item to the other, and the total is what they think you will pay.

With a real labor and parts estimate the only thing you can negotiate is their hourly rate.

 

[Dmagyar]

The entire proposal is fake. They will shift numbers from one line item to the other, and the total is what they think you will pay.

With a real labor and parts estimate the only thing you can negotiate is their hourly rate.

So not to disagree, but I do...
As a former (now retired EC) contractor my quotes listed the total cost, then outlined in detail the scope. That’s all an estimate has to be...cost, scope, and when you’ll start and some idea on when you’ll complete the job....

 

[saltsman]

These itemized proposals are totally fake. The real proposal which they know has two parts:

1) Parts
2) Labor

You can ask them for the real numbers if you want.

Lets say they are spending, 1 day's labor, and $1500 worth of parts, then that works out to $3,500-$4,000.

They are billing you for each item as if it was a separate job that takes all day. Probably worth your time to get a few more opinions.

This exactly.

What parts and at what price? There is a price (and quality difference) in say a Square D QO panel vs a Square D Homeline panel - or Cutler Hammer BR vs Cutler Hammer CH. Are they quoting CAFCI breakers or standard? Do you really want CAFCI breakers?

How many hours of labor at what price? If Company A estimates 24 hours and Company B estimates 48 hours, then you need to be asking what all those extra hours are going to. If Company B is $75/hr and Company C $150/hr how to they justify the difference and is that worth it to you (warranty of workmanship, liability insurance, licensed and bonded).

What will be the state of the install when they are completed. Does this bid cover any needed sheetrock repair and painting or are they going to leave a hole in the wall for you to finish out with another contractor.

Did the company actually measure the diameter of the exiting riser and ground rod or are they just assuming to replace it -- needed or not. That can make a big difference. Those parts don't often need replacing due to age, but might if they are undersized for 200 Amp service. I'm not a professional electrician, but I can't remember a meter socket that wasn't already rated for 200 Amps. Your's might not be, or it might be out of date, or it might be perfectly good. You need a second and third option on all that.

 

[Sophias_dad]

That price is very high indeed, IMHO.

Sounds like the electrician saw or heard about your Tesla. Next time say the 14-50 is for a Nissan Leaf, or even borrow one from a friend for more authenticity. Don't say 'welder' or 'dryer' because they don't run continuously and they are likely to undersize the wiring to save a buck(of theirs, of course)

 

[eevee-fan]

Good idea, say you are getting this.

America’s Most Affordable Electric Cars Become Even Cheaper

 

[sightman]

I'll preface by saying it is nearly impossible to perform an apples to apples comparison here without scoping the job, but I had near identical work done in 2012. I'm in PA. I had my 100 amp service upgraded to 200 amp, new panel, new circuit breakers, permit and inspection....wait for it....$2400. An electric car was a pipe dream in 2012, so I didn't have any sort of plug installed for an electric car.

Therefore your price does seem high to me, but I'm also not sure what exactly is involved with yours. My electrician had to pull in all new wiring from the point where the pole meets the house to the panel.

As a point of reference, I have an above general understanding of this stuff. When we had our basement finished, I did all the electrical and installed a sub panel (inspected and approved pre and post install). I got a Siemens panel and about 10 breakers, plus wire was about $1000 in supplies. The rest was my time, and a few cases of beer...

 

[Jblnks]

I was just quoted $3,700 for upgrading to 200amp. Brother in law, who is an electrician, thought it was too high. We were going to have him do it but he doesn’t live in our state anymore.

He also thought that guy saw that I had a Tesla and increased the price by 25-35%.

 

[user212_nr]

So not to disagree, but I do...
As a former (now retired EC) contractor my quotes listed the total cost, then outlined in detail the scope. That’s all an estimate has to be...cost, scope, and when you’ll start and some idea on when you’ll complete the job....

Nothing wrong with itemizing the job. The thing is that the the numbers are just funny numbers and they have in their heads a second invoice with the labor and equipment costs.

I got this from an electrician who got annoyed with my questions and finally said "Look: we charge by the 1/2 day and full day, $175 per hour (plus parts), does that make sense?" He had been giving me "parts and labor" breakdown, but the parts numbers weren't adding up. When he couldn't account for the $500 worth of parts he quoted, he basically explained that he made those numbers up to look nice.

You just have to shop around for the guy who isn't so busy and who will do $100 /hour.

 

[RayK]

@TimCMass My experience with this type of panel upgrade is from about 6 years ago here in San Jose. Main feed on one phase was toast and we decided to upgrade the 100A panel to 200A at the time. No other electrical work like putting in a high amp outlet since I didn't have an EV. Quoted and paid $4300.

 

[jjrandorin]

editing this because I feel like I am beating a dead horse here that doesnt need to be beaten, lol.

OP make sure you get some quotes, just like any other construction job. I am guessing the price might be a bit high, and other quotes might come in lower, but lower like hundreds to 1200 lower, not lower like 1/2 that price unless the work gets de scoped.