Interior redesign coming?

[DocZ]

Curious what people's thoughts are. I have nothing to base this on except my own intuition. I feel like an interior redesign is coming sooner than we think because:

1) Model 3 is fast approaching and there aren't a whole lot of things separating it from the S/X. You need something new and fresh to keep people paying a premium for the higher end vehicles.
2) The hiring of Volvo's interior design chief not too long ago.

In general, I feel like something big is coming for the S/X in the coming months before the 3 launches because again, I just don't feel the current S/X are worth the extra $50-60k over the 3. Will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Yes...Soon : >)

Instead of a total refresh, Tesla seems to be rolling out individual updated items like seats, cup holders, colors, wood, trim etc.

Might not see a whole interior change coming.

Pricing difference might not be as wide as that. A base S for around $70,000 compared to a higher optioned first release Model 3 around $50,000. Some items standard on the S might be extra cost option on 3.

 

[mhw23]

Model S is about halfway through the typical model lifecycle for a car before a complete redesign happens. Maybe a little more than halfway by now. Anyway, I expect a completely redesigned Model S in 3 years or so. By then, the car (still beautiful) will look a bit dated next to other luxury cars in the market.

 

[jelloslug]

I expect a serious interior redesign within a year and another minor exterior refresh in two years.

 

[AVRnj]

Interior redesigns are often tricky. There are some I see that I like the new design, and many I see where I strongly prefer the older design. Also very subjective. I personally hate the current Porsche interior design that I first saw with the Panorama, but a lot of people love it.

 

[calisnow]

Tesla will be forced to bring the S upmarket - very soon - in at least three key areas:

-Interior noise level
-Ride harshness
-Seat comfort

There are a lot of folks here who keep harping on about how the 3 is important to usher in mass EV acceptance etc. True - but remember the 3 is desirable because of Tesla's sex appeal. The S is getting long in the tooth to be a sexy car. It will be always one of the most gorgeous designs ever to be manufactured but noise/vibration/harshness still have a long way to go. The 3 will be the sporty choice and the S will move toward full "first class airliner" luxury - my prediction.

Now that Tesla is going all-in on self driving, ride comfort, seat comfort and interior noise level become even more important - none of these items are close in quality to the best offered by Lexus/MBZ/others - but it didn't matter in the past because there was no other smooth, cool long distance EV. That will change as of almost right now.

One thing I've noticed is that when the car goes on autopilot my sensitivity to road noise/wind noise/ride harshness goes way up - my mental bandwidth/attention is no longer occupied by controlling the car. I become a passenger - and just like in other forms of passive transport my brain is freed up to critique my ride:

-View out the windshield truly sucks compared to Model X.
-Road/wind noise above 65 truly SUCKS compared to the best German/Japanese competitors.
-Automatic door closing of X is a "slam" not a soft "woosh"
-Even the new premium seats SUCK compared to the best Germans.
-Ride quality on imperfect American roads SUCKS compared to S class Benz/Bentley/Lexus' best offerings. etc. Sportiness no longer matters when you're a passenger - smoothness does.

I can't even recline a bit in the Model S on autopilot because frost heaves and concrete freeway expansion joints rock the car like a baby buggy and the headrest literally catapults my neck forward - only to slam into it again on the next bounce.

I expect Tesla, not being stupid - is about to release a much higher quality suspension for the S along with more noise control. These items can be quickly engineered into the S and have probably been in the works for some time.

As for suspension I'm hoping for something TRULY advanced - a predictive set-up like MBZ uses in Magic Body Control along with magnetorheological dampers.

I'm also more aggressive than others here in how fast I think a total S redesign will show up - I think 24 months - max 36. I think it's well underway behind the scenes and the car will move in the luxo-barge direction to more clearly differentiate it from the 3. Expansion in all dimensions, reclining seats with footrests, etc. Somewhere in the direction of the Lucid Air.

If the Air gets to market in 2019 (a big if) I think Tesla will have already responded.

OR the S stays the size it is and the new "Tesla XL Luxobarge" S class competitor shows up.

 

[calisnow]

Another reason Tesla must be working on suspension design is because Mercedes is closing in on highway autopilot parity - we like to laugh at MBZ for being perpetually behind on lane keeping - but if you've been paying attention notice that MBZ is furiously updating the capability of Drive Pilot. Clearly Tesla has forced them to rapidly iterate.

Generation 1 of Drive Pilot was released on the 2014 S Class in fall 2013 I believe.
Three years went by.
The 2017 E Class Drive Pilot was Generation 2 - vaunted prior to release - then laughed at once actually released.
Only 12 months is passing until Drive Pilot Generation 3 is coming - this calendar year in summer/fall for the 2018 S Class.
Generation 4 - aka a team-up with Nvidia is slated for 2019 I believe.

If MBZ gets self steer parity (or close) to Tesla there are a number of folks who will realize that long distance drive comfort is vastly superior in a big Benz that can be bought for the same money as a Model S. And supercharging ain't free anymore. Do the math on how much it will cost you per mile to bomb along in your Model S at 80 mph and $0.20 per kwhr. The Model 3 will exist for sports car fans and the Green EV crowd.

Then Tesla will have the Model S - which will begin to look like a rather pale choice compared to the MBZ S Class's silent and comfortable interior and magically smooth ride quality.

Tesla knows this of course - and I expect is working 24/7 to get their luxury/comfort credentials on part with MBZ and the rest. Just because their lips are sealed doesn't mean they won't drop a luxury bomb on us at any moment.

 

[calisnow]

And don't forget about the threat from Lucid - I would imagine Musk is taking them seriously. Go ahead and laugh - like everyone did at Tesla. The Air's interior and claimed capabilities - 400 miles range, active noise cancellation, 55 degree reclining seats - are exactly what I picture the next gen S to showcase. The Air's exterior is not a great success in my book but the interior is 100% S.E.X.

 

[oktane]

@calisnow, totally agree. For Tesla's sake, I hope they have been introspective on their own shortcomings and have been working feverishly to improve them. Ride quality, interior noise, seat quality, etc. are seriously behind competitors at 1/2 the cost. In order to keep the Model S viable against the Model 3, they must catch up to the Germans.

And you're right that once FSD is in swing, people are going to want Maybach luxury not "sporty handling". Have you been inside of the new S-Class with the Executive seats and fridge in the console? With the airline style tray tables....imagine peacefully going down the freeway like that on AP.

One of the nicer features in MB is the Split-View where the front passenger can watch a movie on the same screen, invisible to the driver...

 

[vgrinshpun]

@calisnow , do you have coil suspension? My experience with air suspension even for my classic P85+ does not square with your "Ride Harshness" and "Ride quality on imperfect American roads SUCKS compared to S class Benz/Bentley/Lexus' best offerings" remarks.

 

[calisnow]

@vgrinshpun - yes I have coils. I am getting another S within a few weeks and have been going back and forth on air/coils. So many people say the air is not actually any smoother on small imperfections than coils. So many others claim it is much much smoother. I rented an X on air for a week 10 days ago - and found it smoother than my S. On the other hand I wasn't sure if that was due to its heavier weight. On major imperfections the X was/is terrible but on small things it did seem like it ironed out the imperfections.

I haven't found an air S to rent for a few days to compare to mine. But I finally decided on the cheapest AP 2.0 S I could find - a very good deal - to simply ride it out for 12 months - then dump for whatever new goodness is coming in the S next year. And it happened to be on coils. I had a $112K 90D loaded on air lined up - then I decided I"d probably lose $50-$60K on it in a year due to Model 3 and a new interior S. So I'm making do with a much, much cheaper AP 2.0 S for now.

Also now that I think of it - a long time ago I rented a 2013 rear wheel drive S on air. And I do remember it having a noticeably smoother ride than my 2016 70D on coils.

But then I tested in 2014 air/coils back to back on some freeways in Pasadena and I couldn't notice the difference - at least that's how I remember it.

Some people seem to think Tesla frequently and silently changes around the spring rates and damping characteristics of the S and doesn't tell anyone.

 

[P85DBeast]

Im thinking interior redesign a couple weeks after the 3 is released. Mainly like they did when the X was released Tesla was offering the Slipstream wheels, updated decor etc.... There are 20 changes to the X/S lineup every week. So im expecting an New exterior and interior redesign at the same time. And trust me we will know when it's getting close new colors are probably going to be added, wheels, more options etc... So when the 3 is released I would give it about a month before any "Major" changes are coming.

 

[vgrinshpun]

I find all the talk about "floaty" air suspension and coil suspension that "provides better feed back" quite strange.

I have air suspension and rode on coils many times as loaners. IMO people insisting that coils "provide better feed back" are confusing busy, nervous ride over small imperfections of the road surface (just noise IMO, as far as handling is concerned) with perceived feed back. Air suspension, again IMO, provides plenty of feedback when it actually matters for handling, minus the noise of busy, nervous ride over small imperfections, which contributes no useful feed back whatsoever.

Model S is my first car with air suspension, and I will never buy another Tesla without it.

 

[Canuck]

The Air's exterior is not a great success in my book but the interior is 100% S.E.X.

If your idea of "100% S.E.X." is looking like some strange bondage contraption, then yes, the Air interior does resemble that...

It looks god awful to me, but to each their own.

 

[ecarfan]

My 3+ year old S has coils and I have spent more than a few hours driving an air suspension S. I don't notice a difference. Seriously.

 

[FlatSix911]

So Much Nonsense ... some us still like driving our cars

 

[vgrinshpun]

My 3+ year old S has coils and I have spent more than a few hours driving an air suspension S. I don't notice a difference. Seriously.

When I got one of my first loaners, I immediately noticed difference in the ride, and proceeded to flip the screens on the center display to indeed verify that it had coils. I have to say, though, I am unusually sensitive to these sort of things. I can tell when my tires are low on air pressure by couple of pounds, or when one tire is under-inflated just by driving the car. I am totally serious as well.

 

[oktane]

Vgrinshpun - have you ever driven a car with an active suspension? If so, which one? There is a night and day difference between active suspensions and Tesla's suspensions. It's really annoying being jostled around. In the Tesla I always feel like I'm driving a rental car (when it comes to the suspension).

I fear the people that think the Tesla suspension is really good just don't know what else is out there (or has been for 20 years).

 

[CraZ8]

I think we will get an interior refresh soon after the rollout of the model 3. Simply because much of Tesla's resources are going toward that and completing the Giga factory. Plus Tesla is nearly 6 years into the initial design. Most car companies offer a refresh after 4 years and a complete redesign after 7 or 8 years. Tesla has only tweaked the nose and given us next gen seats and a center console among a few other baubles. Plus they need to upscale the S to justify the price differential to the 3

 

[JeffreyY]

@calisnow , do you have coil suspension? My experience with air suspension even for my classic P85+ does not square with your "Ride Harshness" and "Ride quality on imperfect American roads SUCKS compared to S class Benz/Bentley/Lexus' best offerings" remarks.

Agreed. For reference, my 2016 P90DL rides almost as well as my S65. It's a minor difference in ride quality on poor roads. However, in noise and vibration the Tesla blows the S class out of the water! We have two P90D's and both are FAR quieter and exhibits FAR less vibration than the S class even though the S65 is a V12 renowned for it's smoothness. Both our Tesla's have air suspension though. At speed, even the amount of noise from the tires is staggeringly low on the Tesla's due to the noise absorbing foam.

I did drive a coil suspension P90 when we were deciding and we did feel the air suspension ride was quite a bit smoother.

I would point out that, yes if you compare the P90D with 21" rims NOT with an AMG Mercedes with similar 20" wheels and performance tires but with a regular S550 on say the smaller rims, yes the difference in ride is more noticeable, but the handling is not comparable. MB has 3 suspensions available although they are making the 3rd one very hard to obtain. There is the coil, the air suspension, and the active body control which is hydraulic and semi-active (to prevent body roll in corners).

All that being, said, what is odd is that it's likely Tesla is using the same air struts as in the Mercedes Airmatic system. In Mercedes, there are adjustable valve settings for the air suspension which can tighten / soften the ride quality (Comfort / Sport 1 / Sport 2). This is sorely missing in the Tesla. I've been wondering when this will become available. On AMGs, the Airmatic is further tuned for sporty driving compared with the non-AMG models.

With the hydraulic suspensions, the suspension acts to combat body motions up to 5 Hz, and can reduce I think 90%+ of body roll, which makes for a noticeable difference in handling in curves. For a heavy car like the Tesla, this would be quiet useful.